Overview:

The podcast discussed strategies for generating qualified leads through personalized messaging on Facebook ads. The presenters emphasized testing different ad formats and copy styles, and described their approach of using empathetic, conversational language in messages to prospects. This allows opportunities for further discussion to see if prospects are a good fit. The presenters also shared how they increased response rates without using landing pages by keeping people engaged within Facebook. Their success in resurrecting banned accounts through optimized targeting and messaging was an interesting highlight.

Takeaways:

• Lead generation through personalized follow-up campaigns without traditional methods like webinars or free reports can work well.
• It's important to qualify leads so clients are following up with the right prospects instead of just anyone.
• Creating a safe and conversational tone when generating leads can help prospects feel comfortable engaging.
• Focusing lead generation efforts on those ready to buy or have a conversation, rather than casting a wide net, can be more effective.
• Long-form copy used in Facebook ads can work if it pulls people in and engages them before sending them away from the platform.
• Split testing ads extensively is important as many small things could cause an ad campaign to fail on Facebook.
• Automated nurturing and follow-up of leads can increase bandwidth for handling more inquiries.
• Qualifying leads through opt-ins or multiple touchpoints can generate better quality leads even if they are slightly more expensive.
• Adding empathy and care for prospects as people, not just sales targets, makes a difference in conversions.
• Not everything needs to be perfect to see results - testing and improving is an ongoing process.

Automatically-Generated Transcription:

Excellent.

So we're here for the December issue of, of Elite Marketers 2021, the final one for 2021.

And we're gonna start with kickoff with Simeon and Tracy.

I'll hand it over to Simeon and Tracy and you can take it from there.

And I'll, I'll make you guys the, uh, co-hosts as well.

So, And everyone, his name's Simon, not Simeon.

And his, his parents were just drunk when they filled out his birth certificate.

Is that right?

I was gonna say, It's all good.

It's memorable.

It stands out.

That's it.

That's right.

It's like Simon Reynolds.

I had a, it's a, it's not a numerology thing, I promise.

That's that's great.

So, uh, yeah, so you guys should be able to take over the screen now.

Okay, cool mate.

Can you guys all see this?

Yes.

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

Alright.

I just used your copy, Scott, let you put in the group and I thought I'll cut and paste that 'cause that's gotta be good.

Register to the courses that you've got without webinars or free reports or traditional league magnets, et cetera via personalized follow up in campaigns.

And just wanted to share with you guys today how we've landed on where we are and just give you some, some tools and, and just show you some stuff that I've got.

Jace Webster, I'm the host.

I can maybe not let him in.

That's all.

All right.

Yeah.

So we're gonna just show you what we're doing.

Just have you On the, um, Just that, yeah, just sharing with you what's working for us right now.

What's working for our clients, how Tracy and I I guess got together.

I understand that it's not your first radio here and it's just cool just being able to chat, share some ideas in a community of people who are already keeping some serious goals for their clients.

It's really cool.

So I guess what's great about that is that we can share a lot of time where you don't have to do any sort of weird sleazy selling stuff or any preambles and we can just cut straight to the nitty gritty, straight to the cut, to the chase and, and do some cool stuff with you.

And maybe if there's some time, do some q and a as well or I'll give you guys a, a couple of options too if you wanna continue the chat further or if you wanna have a bit of a deep dive offline about some more specifics.

Wanna make ourselves available for that trace.

Do you wanna say a few things?

Yeah, I just really hope to add value to you all and show you what we've been doing.

What works.

Like we, we all come across the same problems in whether it's our own businesses or our client's businesses in that you generate leads for people and they tell you they're great at sales and they tell you that they're great at follow up, but when you start working with them you find that they're not.

And it's always our s**t leads that are the problem.

So we've designed this system really.

One, I'm a lazy marketer and I like to do things the lazy way.

So doing lead magnets and webinars and all that sort of stuff is way too much work.

And then secondly, because for me, I know I'm good at generating leads and I wanted to be able to make a difference in my client's businesses for I I just get really light lit up when I can make a difference to a client's business.

And we'll share a couple of stories with you through today.

So I'm hoping that you guys get some gold nuggets.

I always look for one gold nugget that I can take away and implement from someone else.

And I hope we can provide that for you today.

Yeah, I'm the same.

I remember like one of my mates, I know you guys all know him.

Russell Brunson was a friend of mine when I was living in the US about a decade ago.

And I remember him saying to me he'd go to a conference fly across the country 'cause no American flies outside of America.

Anyway, so he'd go to a convention and he'd be looking for one, just one idea to make a million dollars.

And as soon as he'd get that idea, he'd leave and it'd be really awesome if he got it on the first day.

So I'm not saying we could do that, that's a pretty big bold claim, but I'd like to think that we could do that.

It would be awesome.

And there might be one thing, like I was just talking with Tracy.

Oh Tracy, if you could say that this one thing, I think it's pivotable a pivotable, yeah.

Pivotal to whether campaigns work or not.

And it's, it's not really much to do with the course or such.

It's what you're actually selling through our messaging.

And we wanna take you through some specifics on messaging here today.

So that can help you, it can help your clients and do cool things.

So a little bit about me.

I've been in the marketing space for just a decade and a half.

I met Tracy at a, a mastermind, a bit like there's a community of top marketers and there's no doubt she was the brightest shining light in that particular room.

It was pretty dull to be honest, but so the bar wasn't that high for Tracy.

I'm just joking.

Um, no, it was awesome man.

We just got together and I was just sharing her with her, what I was doing with my clients.

I had people in financial services, people in real estate, and I had all sorts of other businesses around the financial services in real estate space.

And I was, I guess I was a bit frustrated 'cause I was doing stuff the old way, which is running campaigns for clients and they'd be all over the country, right?

I'd have one on the east coast and a client on the west coast and I have one client who was saying, Hey, they're amazing.

And I'd have pretty much a carbon copy campaign on the other side of Australia on a different straight different state or maybe even the neighboring suburb, right?

So it wasn't the marketplace that was even different.

The other client was saying, these leads are crap and it'd be just frustrate the pants off me.

It's like when you do a bit of a deep dive, you'd find that clients just aren't following up with leads.

Right?

And it's just, or if they are, it's how they're following up, right?

So it wasn't the leads and it, it really frustrated me because we'd go through this churn and I think in our space as, as digital marketers, Tracy and I run an agency, the average churn rate is about 90 days and it's just terrible.

Yeah.

There's a bunch of crap marketers out there who create a bloody trail of destruction in their wake, uh, because they simply dunno what they're doing.

That's terrible.

You can even have a, a great performing campaign with some great results, uh, from the ad side of things and it can still fall over because your client's not doing the right thing.

They're not utilizing that golden window of five minutes to get in with a conversation or they're trying to, they're trying to ask for sex on the first date, right?

They're asking for too much too soon.

Alright?

And it's not a light conversation that eases them into a sales process.

And so I was getting clients and then losing, experiencing churn.

And then I met Tracy at this event and she showed me what she was doing with the automations and the systems and the messaging and my jaw literally hit the ground.

I was like, I'd never seen anything like this.

And I knew that this was the holy grail.

I was so excited.

And she's a bit of a, a feisty one too.

So it was just great fun to work with, which is really cool 'cause you spend a lot of time working with people, particularly their business partner.

We, we set up company together and yeah, really excited about what we're doing in the space.

Uh, I believe it's cutting edge.

I haven't seen anyone who executes the messaging like we do and how we do it and how we even arrive at the messaging.

And we've obviously, all of us are a product of the, the voices and the, the coaching and the mentoring that we've had in the space.

And we've got a lot of people to acknowledge and thank along the way to help us develop our own style and our own systems.

But it's been an awesome journey and I'm just, I feel really grateful 'cause we don't have that churn issue that we do anymore.

And it's normally now it's a case of us just, uh, listening to our intuition.

You know what it's like if you're talking to someone and as a potential prospect.

And now I'm starting to listen to the red flags that are going off for me.

And I know Tracy's pretty upfront with it and she goes, no, that is a hard no.

Um, I'm not even gonna talk about the tax, but you put on it, Tracy, if you feel someone's not a suitable client for us, but, um, we're just a little bit more discerning now at the front end rather than doing a whole ton of work to experience churn because we know the system works for the right people that we would choose as a client.

And maybe you guys are the same.

Can anyone relate to that?

Uh, nobody.

Yeah, guys are on mute.

That's kind.

Awesome.

So I'm just curious, I, I want Tracy to, to jump in and just talk about what we've done with our messaging and our systems and everything.

I'm curious to know what platforms you guys are using at the moment.

Maybe pop that in the chat.

Just let us know and I'll see if I can pull up the chat here just in the chat.

Could you just let me know if you're using, I know you guys had people from Come Suite a couple months back are using that or using G H L Infusionsoft.

Yeah.

Cool.

Awesome.

What else are you guys using?

Raport, Kartra.

Ke ActiveCampaign.

That's awesome.

Active campaign.

Raport and Zaia.

Yeah, that Kartra.

Infusionsoft, excellent.

Kartra my own platform.

That's cool.

All right.

Evolve Entrepreneur app.

Nice.

Alright.

Awesome.

Super helpful.

This helps us with our message to market match too, guys, so that we don't wanna tell you guys how to suck x We don't wanna tell you something or go over a bunch of stuff that is redundant because you already know it.

I might hand over to Trace.

You can, might, might hear that I've got a bit of a frog in my throat.

I've got man flu and I'm just, I've just literally risen from the dead this morning to be on the, on this chat with you guys.

So I'm gonna hand over to trace a bit and I'll just be, uh, in the background just flicking through the slides for over to you, trace.

So if he flicks through, fast forward too quickly and I rouse at him, it's just, we've got one of those work marriages.

We live thousands of kilometers apart, but we've still got that.

What I might do is just share my story with you guys.

I am very good at generating leads and I am, I think it comes from being an like an empath.

I feel empathetic.

I enjoy writing copy for emotionally based courses where people are really making a difference to their customer's lives.

And I met the client I'm gonna share with you at another business mastermind many years ago, and he'd been through a few agencies who just weren't delivering him the results he wanted.

And I, I just said to him, oh, let me have a crack.

And he was like, okay.

I said, when do you want me to start?

He said, tonight.

I said, great, I'll send you my invoice.

And that was about six years ago.

And I ran a campaign for him and it went really well.

And back at that time, I think I was, we were patchworking together active campaign.

He had a c and zapping leads into spreadsheets and we had stuff going on everywhere.

But what I found was, even though the campaign was successful, he just wasn't, we couldn't see what the real results were because his teams weren't filling out the spreadsheets.

And it was frustrating for me because the thing that lights me up is making a difference to someone's business.

And these guys were going through a pretty tough time.

Like they'd had to remortgage their homes to keep the business going and things were tough for them.

They, they were working really hard and in that patch working of things together, it, it worked but it still wasn't working.

And then I came across G H l from someone in the states and then decided to build that out for, I went back to my client, Bruce and I said, Hey, I've got this system, let's ditch everything else.

And he's always trusted me and you're the clients that trust you and just let you go with stuff.

They're the ones that you can really make a difference for.

And I am already very conversational in my approach and I want people to feel safe to fill in a form on his website or on a Facebook ad or wherever we are generating the leads from.

So for me it's about creating that safety that even though they're filling in this form, we are not gonna pressure them.

It's just an opportunity to have a conversation to see if this course is right for them.

The other thing that I was trained on, and a few of you might know, this guy Ben Simkin.

I know Jace knows him.

And we met through Ben Simkin I think, and Adam Arnold.

And one of the things that I learned from him was that markers fish around the pool of getting people to download lead magnets and getting them to do this and getting them to do that.

And he gave me this analogy of when, why don't we just go after the people who are ready to buy or the people who are ready to have a conversation?

And that's where I pretty much fish.

And his analogy was, people go into McDonald's and McDonald's don't make them download the ingredients list before they can, before they can buy a burger.

We're just allowed to go in and buy the burger.

We don't have to jump through hoops to buy a burger.

So that's the 3% of the pool where people are ready to buy and not a lot of people fish there.

So that's where I fish for my clients.

So I don't do lead magnets, I don't do, I build landing pages and sales pages obviously, but the thing that I find, um, most successful is just providing the opportunity for a conversation to see if this course is right for you, not pushy stuff.

And all the conversations that I create for clients, uh, as if I'm a human being, reaching out to another human being.

So that's how our messaging goes, which we'll show you in a minute.

So cut to the chase building these automated sys the, the automated system and automated messaging around being a human to human made the absolute difference to, to Bruce's business.

And after we've got that up and running, I was then able to go and get him into a bunch of schools in Queensland, which is, I think it's like 40, $50 million now.

So we've, and that was in a 12 to 18 month period of building this out.

And it's purely looking at the conversation, it's purely looking at where people are at.

It's purely looking at what they really want and desire and can we solve a problem for them.

So the high school thing was really about Bruce wanted to get his, his, we, we were selling a course, we were advertising a course and I wasn't happy with the lead cost, wasn't happy with conversions.

And I said to him, who else has got our students?

Like where else can we go?

And he said, high schools, but I've been trying to get into high schools for four years.

And I said to him, alright, I'm gonna try something different.

And I did a deep dive into school principals and what matters to them.

And I said to him, don't tell me it's student results 'cause it's gotta be something deeper than that.

Do high school principals hang out together and compare their high school results?

And he said, yeah, they do.

There's this thing called Q C E points.

So I basically did a cold email series, followed up with lumpy mail and spoke about in that very conversationally how to increase your school's E Q C E points even to your most disengaged students.

And it just went off, it worked really well.

So I spoke to school principals about something that was gonna make a difference for them in a conversational way and that worked really well.

And then we carry that through all of our messaging.

I've rambled enough here, but does anyone have any questions about anything I've spoken about so far?

I, I can't really see, I don't think there's any questions in there.

Not yet.

All good.

Alright, cool.

So really it's in the whole process through from generating a lead.

I'm just thinking about, I wanna create the opportunity for a conversation and then there's the whole sales process after that.

So that's where I start opportunity to create a conversation opportunity to make a difference to the people who might fill in this form to buy this course to make a difference to their lives.

Yeah and that might be the big thing, trace.

I think a lot of our clients, they want us to sell the thing, whatever the thing is, the service of the product.

But it's no, we don't wanna sell the thing, we wanna sell the conversation because it's easier to sell the conversation, it's easier to say yes to the conversation and it's easy then for our messaging to qualify people who are serious rather than people who are just curious.

So I think that's a big point.

Um, happy to share a little bit about the system and what it does.

We've actually just got a, like an animation and it'll just give you a bit of an overview really quickly and it'll save us a little bit of time if you're open to that.

I can share that.

Do you want me to do that now?

Trace?

Yep.

Yeah, Hang on one second.

I'll, this Is a brand new video for us we've just created and the voiceover, he pronounces convert really weirdly.

So I will say we're in the middle of getting the audio redone.

That's right.

Here we go.

With student convert, scaling your business has never been easier.

Our unique automated lead, nurture and follow up creates increased bandwidth for you to manage more student inquiries and build trust on autopilot.

With the all in one platform, you can customize your sales pipeline and processes, measure the performance of marketing campaigns, communicate across multiple channels all in one place, assign tasks, book appointments, automate follow-ups for your team so no inquiry gets left behind.

And use several other crucial tools for your education business.

Say goodbye to expensive C R M software sales funnels, emailing software survey software, text messaging software, automated voice message software or calendar software and say hello to student converts all in one convenience, intuitive and easy to use platform specifically built for RTOs, course creators, educators, and coaches of all kinds.

It's like having a full-time personal assistant making sure your whole team is fully supported.

If you like the idea of more students, you'll love using Student Convert.

If you're already a student convert client, all you need to do is click log in and get started.

If not, create your free account now and see how student convert can make enrolling more students a breeze.

Cool.

Cool.

Alright.

So yeah, a couple things that we wanna give you.

I'm interested in some feedback on that too guys, if you think it's good or if you think it's crap, just let us know in the chat will be great.

That's just our little teaser.

Then we go through a bit of a walkthrough and we might give you guys a bit of a walkthrough in terms of um, how we set up the sales process and what we do with our clients.

It could give you some insights there as well as our messaging and we'll show some specific messaging that we've got with our automations including voicemail drops, texts, emails, that type of thing.

I think that would be helpful for you guys and just, yeah.

So first thing we wanna uh, help you with, whoops, is I think number one is that adding extra million dollars to your client is simpler than you might think.

And sometimes we say that to our potential clients too and they, they freak out and we just show them examples of just a number of different testimonies of clients that we've actually helped.

Like these guys here Wealth Within, they'd gone through, I think it was four different digital marketing agencies in the previous 12 months before we got, they came on board with us.

There's that, that typical churn, right?

And obviously people dunno what they're doing.

It's a big problem.

If you're cycling through a digital marketing agency every 90 days, that's gotta hurt, right?

So these guys decided to get back on the horse and they said, we want you to help us.

And we said, what's your highest campaign you've ever done?

And it was around about the end of the financial year where they do their number one selling campaign.

And in 18 years of business their biggest results were like 466,000.

That was their all time record.

And they said to us, if you can give us 500 grand, we'll be really happy.

We'll know that it's meant to be type thing.

So we said, let's have a look at what you've got and I'll tell you a funny story about this later on.

And yeah, we took their email messaging, we looked at that, improved it, they were doing a one hit wonder email and I was like, no, people don't read emails so you've gotta at least put a series together.

And we crafted an offer, we looked at our process that we call profit profiling to look at our perfect client avatar to look at all the things that were the emotional things, their psychographics, all of that sort of stuff where they were on the, the, what is it called?

The awareness level or product awareness level or solution.

Yeah, by By.

Yeah.

So that was cool.

So yeah, long story short is we ran this, we sourced our copywriting from various places and wrote it ourselves and I'll speak about that a bit later.

But, uh, their first month they went from their highest ever record of 466,000 to 1.2 million and that was with a zero ad spend.

We didn't, their Facebook account had gotten banned and blocked.

So all we had was a reasonable sized database.

They had 30,000 people on their database or 35.

So yeah, it was a reasonable sized database, but they'd never seen anything like that.

And it just, I I guess it goes to show, you know, when you can create the right offer and you can put all these pieces together, you can have something that can drastically improve your conversions.

Yeah.

More than doubling their highest ever record in 18 years.

It's pretty substantial.

I know Tracy, you probably wanna talk about these guys as well and the difference that you've made with their business.

Yeah, so basically as I mentioned previously, they were really struggling and just in putting the messaging and we will share the message, we'll show you our exact messaging and how we reach out to people that we've done.

I, they're now at the $50 million in revenue with schools and then individual course sales as well.

And that's just having, it's, for me, it's just about having the messaging, the conversational messaging that reaches out to the prospects that provides ample opportunity to have a conversation with people so they can get on with doing what they're doing.

And there's also, as Simon mentioned before, how we go through our client sales processes.

So we'll share how we bring that out of them and then how we work with them to make their sales processes better as well.

These guys here are fairly new client, I think they did, let me just move my face outta the way.

They're about, they're 12 months old now, Simon.

They've been months, I think in the past, uh, first seven months we did 1.4 million for them in, in their, their first six months or so.

Mm-hmm.

Thing number two, you don't need to hire additional staff to multiply.

Clients don't need to hire additional staff to multiply their income.

It doesn't need to be part of the growth equation either with our automations can increase bandwidth for their people who are handling inquiries as well.

And at this point, Tracy might uh, give the guys a bit of a look at the platform and then do a deep dive into the messaging and all those juicy things.

Give them some risk.

How this came about too with not having to hire additional staff or had a strategy day with a client and we've worked at how many hours their team was spending in physically trying to ring leads and not connecting with people.

And it was a full-time role just chasing leads.

So we know in with our automations happening in the background that it basically replaces one full-time person chasing leads.

Obviously dependent on the size of the organization.

I don't know if I can, um, share my screen Scott, 'cause I'm not, Should be able to see how you go.

You should be able to grace.

All right, let me bring it back.

Thanks.

It'd be, It'd be, yeah, it'd be great to see the insight and the, and like the, the emails and the SMSs and all of that sort of thing.

Yep, I'll do that.

Now what I'll do is I'll go through our messaging here with you and then I'll show you how our, how we've set up the sales funnel for this particular client.

We do send out a lot of messages.

We do have months worth of follow up and it is just like basic touch points.

We do use a lot of text message and we find that our clients sell a lot of courses via text message.

People just don't want to be on the phone.

So someone comes in, we're all used to having an automated email that goes out.

I always wait two to three minutes after someone's filled in a form and I always write it in a way that it's a person reaching out to a person.

So you can see this message here.

Hi Joe, thanks for reaching out regarding, and we use custom fields in there.

I thought following up through text might be easier for you.

Do you have some time to talk today or tomorrow?

Then we've also got for these guys here because they're a funded R T O, which means if people match a certain criteria the government will pay for their courses.

So you can see this person here has responded pretty much straight away.

But what we often find is that it'll take 6, 7, 8, 9 text messages for someone to respond.

And a lot of the time those responses will be, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to, I wasn't trying to ignore you of the cat got run over, the kid's spill, green cordial all over the kitchen, whatever it is.

The other response we get from prospects is, oh wow, I didn't expect to hear from someone so quickly.

It's very rare 'cause a lot of our clients will be concerned that, that we're following up too much.

But because we are doing it as a human to a human, I think we've had maybe look in over 15,000 leads.

We've probably had three people be really rude and say leave me alone.

If I'd wanted to hear from you I would've responded.

But obviously as soon as they respond was taken outta the automations.

I'm just gonna go to the tab, actually I'll go back through this one but this is one of the basics.

We set them up in workflows now, but this is an older one that I thought I'd share with you.

So you can see here we send out the email after one minute and I can go into each of these and show you how we write the email.

Again, not corporate-y, not it, it really is hu human to human.

I also, so I'm saying what I'm reaching out to them about, we're excited to speak with people who wanna make a difference for young people 'cause this is a course about youth work and we know that people who inquire about courses in the community services sector care about other people.

And then again, reiterating that we want to cover off on all communication bases and letting them know we're gonna be emailing and texting them.

You fill in a form on Facebook.

So we are reminding them because I don't know about you guys, but a lot of the time the responses are who is this?

How did you get my email?

How did you get my phone number?

I didn't fill out a form.

So we are reminding them that they filled in a form, um, in Facebook.

So we also do give people the opportunity to enroll on their own and we do um, a similar email to this.

So we've got a a um, financial planners appointment.

We have a similar, very similar messaging to this and we actually do get a 40% self booking rate into our financial planners calendars.

And for those who don't, we've got the text messaging following up.

So that's the first email.

Now we know most people aren't gonna read their emails straight away.

So this one here is two minutes after.

Hi first name.

Thanks for reaching out regarding the blah blah course.

I thought following up through text might be easier for you.

Do you have some time to talk today or tomorrow?

Let me know or feel free to call me on.

So again, very soft how I would text a friend.

Hey, just reaching out.

Have you got time to chat today?

Then a day later we send another text message.

Wanted to check in with you.

I'd love to help.

One of the things, we've also got a a family family lawyers that we run a campaign for and we wanted to put in with one of their messages.

If we haven't heard from them for three or four days, we send a message out saying, are you okay?

And the law firm were really like, no, we don't ask people if they're okay.

And we were like, we know let's like be humans.

So I think it was at message five or six or seven.

You are muted Simon.

Yeah.

It was like, hey, why don't we just not be lawyers for a moment and just pretend that we actually care about these people just for a moment.

But, and it was, we weren't quite like that but it was just like we were a little bit softer than that.

But it's just, hey, let's just go with this and let's just see what the data shows.

How about we do that?

Let's just try it and we'll measure it and then let the data speak for itself.

And the response we got was amazing 'cause it's, this is family law.

These are the people who are at their end of their rope and they need help and they're in the almost a desperation type, but the time they, and People don't trust lawyers 'cause they're all out just to make money out of your divorce.

Yeah, that's right.

So it, It was the most responded message we had.

Yeah, hey, are you okay?

I've been trying to reach out to you and haven't heard back.

Just wanted to check in.

And that was, that was our most responded message in that campaign.

Just adding that human element.

And then what that did was the person would always respond, not always, but I think it's 80% response rate.

Yeah, I'm so sorry.

Just being dealing with this stuff.

It opened up the doorway for a connection and a conversation.

Yeah.

Again, and if any of you wanna wanna see more of our messaging, we're happy to share that offline with you for sure.

And I'll, I'm gonna show you the response rates in a minute, but again, hope you're doing great.

Wanted to check in quickly.

Is it okay to connect with you further another day later?

We try and mix up the times and actually I've got another one, I've got another campaign and I actually, so what we do is we put a wait at the end of this one, wait seven days and then go back into another campaign and we send an email out like we're really sad we haven't been able to make contact with you.

And I've got a gif in there of a dog with eyebrows going up and down and the client, one of the clients, 'cause there's two partners in this business, she was like, I hate that.

It's so stupid.

And I'm like, let's test and see what the market thinks of it.

And it actually works really well.

So after we've been through, I think this is, this works out to be over two weeks of messaging and that wait and then put them in that campaign with just something silly and fun gets a good response as well.

So it's just adding that human fun, bringing your personalities into the messaging.

Does anyone have any questions about how we come up with our messaging or anything here?

It'd be great to see also trace just the, the landing page that you send people to prior to the messaging as well.

How they, with These guys here, we don't send them to a landing page.

It might depend on the campaign like it, it could be a Facebook lead format, do you know what I mean?

And in which case there wouldn't be a landing page as such.

We Do, we use lead formats because it's way cheaper and we get just as good conversions from lead forms.

Let me have a look in here and I, 'cause we do have some landing pages for these guys, but it's basically a copy of this is really a ClickFunnels duplicate.

So you're building everything exactly the same way in ClickFunnels.

So again, on all of our landing pages, we change our clients from a enroll now or book now or sign away your life if you press on this button type thing.

Just to a more info.

So really this one here is just a duplicate of their website 'cause we can track conversions better but we really soften all of our buttons with a more info.

Does that help Scott?

Yeah, that's good.

That's good.

And with the, with the lead ads, are you finding that they're converting just as, just as well or better as sending 'em to a landing page for et cetera?

Yeah, I actually find and look it does depend on the client but even for my financial planning campaigns, we've got landing pages built.

Um, and we have other offers on the landing page.

But what I found, and I actually questioned this with a mentor of mine, I'm like, everyone sells landing pages and everyone sells all this really hard stuff to do.

And he said sometimes it's really the boots on the ground, it's what's working.

And I find Facebook rewards us with lead ads, it's cheaper 'cause we're not sending people away from their platform.

And then because we reach out and because we really try to be conversational in our messaging, we still, we are getting the conversions and they're better.

We find, we find they're better conversions.

So even with our financial planners to get a 40% self booking rate into our financial planners calendars and I think of that 40%, it's another like 37% that go right through to becoming um, a client and purchasing um, a statement.

What is it?

Statement of advice s o a.

Yeah.

So yeah we definitely and on but on my Facebook forms as well, I say at the very start, do not fill out this form if you don't want us to contact you.

If you fill out this form, we will a hundred percent be contacting you.

Yeah.

So I have that on the forms because you get sick of people filling informed and they really don't have any intent for more information or to purchase something.

Yeah.

A couple of things to speak on Scott about, um, the Facebook lead formats.

One is you're gonna get a bit of help from Facebook because Facebook doesn't want anyone going anywhere else.

That's why if you share a YouTube video on Facebook, obviously that's their competition.

Google owns YouTube.

Facebook won't show that YouTube linked to as many people in your audience.

And it works similarly in the ads manager too that if Facebook will reward you for keeping someone within their Facebook ecosystem.

Do you know what I mean?

So if you have a lead form, you you're doing what they want.

They don't want the, the peasants wandering too far away from the plot.

So yeah, they wanna keep them in their system so they'll reward you for that.

So we might have some beautiful world-class copy on an elegant landing page and it's not gonna convert because Facebook moves the goalposts.

Having said that, knowing that Facebook is in disruption marketing, right?

They're not searching on Facebook for a course.

We wanna make sure we interrupt them, but we also wanna make sure we can have them as high intent as we can.

How like a Google ads people go to Google to search for a specific course so they're, or whatever, they're searching for a specific widget so they already have high intent.

So we wanna use interruption marketing and try and make that as qualified a lead as we can through giving them a few hoops to jump through, which might result in a slightly more expensive lead but it's, it's a better qualified lead.

Does that make sense?

We don't usually pay more for leads.

And Scott, you've seen my copy, I'm a long form copywriter, I find it hard.

I probably write a landing page worth of copy in my ads to lead form.

Yeah.

So they're getting a lot of information in it.

We do get really high click-through rates benchmarks for say the education space is 0.05 from word stream on click-through rates.

Yeah.

Our click-through rates are anywhere from six to 25%.

Like we do get good click-through rates and Just speaking On, I'm big on, I'm big on the headline as well at the front like call whatever it is calling them in or talking about an emotion or whatever it is.

Yeah.

But I think, I don't know if our lead forms work because I basically put a landing page worth of copy in my ad.

Yeah, I like that idea too of long form copy, even if it's skyscraper text on a Facebook ad.

And I think this would be helpful for you guys as well who prob, they might already probably already know this, but if you've got long form copy on a Facebook ad, even though people, there's so many agencies who say Facebook is a low investment medium, people don't have time to go through your skyscraper text.

That's true.

But the people that you resonate with, if you're writing good copy and you understand your target market, the problems that you are providing solutions for and if you connect with them at a heart level, at an emotional level, you are gonna, you're gonna pull them into your copy.

And what's really awesome about that from a digital point of view is that you give them a bit of time on your copy and if you time's the essence here, you've got an interruption grab for attention in your image or your, or whatever your creative is, if it's footage or still image.

And then once you pull them in, you suck them in with your copy, pull them into that beautiful compelling, engaging copy with curiosity and all the elements that make copy work, then what you do on a digital side of things is you give the algorithm something to work with.

So the algorithm can see that this person here has spent 30 seconds, which is an eternity on this ad.

And because Facebook collects 700,000 plus data points on every user, they go Oh my god, this person here, let's say Scott spent 30 seconds on this ad or 15 seconds on this ad, who else is just like Scott that we can send the ad to?

So you give the algorithm a little bit of time to take some track to get some traction with your ad.

And that's the thing that I think is where that's the decider between long form short form copy.

We've obviously test both but often long form copy outperforms the short form copy.

And I think that's the reason why it's the algorithm giving it a chance to actually work from it.

So Ken Ken's got a, Ken's just said in the comments, that's very interesting re Facebook lead ads, I've only used 'em a few times and they generated lower quality leads when we put them through a conventional conversion.

I'm surprised to hear you're getting such good results from the same source using this approach.

Definitely worth us testing, testing it by the sounds.

Would you have any comments on that?

I'd say probably we do the same for our financial planners.

We do the same for our law firms.

We do.

So we've got this student convert then we've got automate convert.

But yeah, I, I don't know, maybe it's just in, in the industry that you're in possibly is it how long my ad copy is?

I don't know but or is it the conversational way that we follow up in leads?

Like we follow a follow them up.

I was gonna get the um, stats up here for you.

So I don't know, I can't say, I just know from my own tests I wasn't getting any different number of leads and the conversion numbers.

There was no difference in the number of conversions.

Yeah That's, And in fact for RTOs we've tried Google ads and Nathan from disruptor here we share a client and I don't see, so for that particular client there is a difference in conversions from Facebook to Google.

So I think it really does make a difference in what your advertising and where you're trying to get them to go to.

'cause I'm always trying to sell the conversation rather than sell a course or sell an appointment.

I wanna sell a conversation to talk about the appointment.

Yeah.

What's the difference in cost per lead on that you are finding on lead ads versus sending people, I know you, you probably don't send people to pages anymore, but when you were, what was the difference in cost per lead?

Yeah we like it might be the difference between $4 and $35 and wow we'd still build the landing pages and we still, so the last button in our lead form.

So we test a call into the system, a click to call and we also test going to the landing page so we can see what traffic goes to the landing page.

Having said that, I believe it's the images that make a world of difference too.

So that financial planning campaign we leads were about, it was $25 a lead for an appointment.

So an appointment lead, which is super cheap.

'cause I had another friend who was saying to me he was getting $5 financial planning leads and I was like, how are you even doing that?

But his lead was a lead magnet.

Download my appointment, they were up around, they were hovering between 25 and 37 bucks a lead.

And all I did was change an image actually using, I use my iPhone IMA images, they always convert and it was image of my son and my daughter-in-law and my grandson and that brought lead costs down to $4 from that 25 to 37.

So simply just changing the image and these guys are booked out with appointments like they can barely keep up.

They've had to grow their team.

It's been super successful.

And that's just using lead ads.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's A bunch of things that can go wrong with Facebook and I, I hear um, new clients all the time have this same sort of question that Ken's raised here.

The same sort of scenario like in my experience I've had crappy leads with with Facebook or they're more expensive with Facebook than Google and I just think Facebook's just a little bit more complicated and there's so many more opportunities for the ad campaign to fail, but it can break with the image or the headline or the copy or the targeting or the interest groups you wanna have a look at whether you go with broad or a lookalike audience or a custom audience, there's so many things that it, it that can break it.

That's why you've gotta do rapid fire split testing.

You've gotta, and I'm not sure if Ken's experience, maybe Ken runs a Facebook advertising agency.

I don't know.

So I just wanna be careful with my response.

But there's so many ways that a, a Facebook ad campaign can crash and break and that's why split testing rapid fire split testing is super critical for, we do it with clients that we're, we really have mastery with.

We're still split testing our own staff and using our best performance just as our control and we wanna look at long form and short form and yeah, I manage against myself for a smaller number of clients.

Yeah.

Cool.

Yeah, so you would know that it's like, yeah, it could be the interest target or then it Could be the, it could also be just the fact that we follow up relentlessly.

Like we've honestly got months of those text messages going out.

It could just be that.

'cause you can see here, and again there's some courses that are more popular, but you can see no why this thing keeps coming up.

You can see the sort of response rates we get now, you know what internet responses are like and you know what humans following up literally it could just be that I write long form copy and that we have the sort of conversational follow up that we have.

It could be that and without testing the way you do it, against the way we do it, I think how long's this piece of string.

But I do think the messaging makes a huge difference.

And Also it's the questions we ask the guys on our lead form, Tracy, we're trying to screen people out.

So, so to Ken's point he's talking about, and I don't know if you can see the chat, he's talking about generating lower quality leads.

Yes.

And so, so we make him jump through a few hoops to so that we increase the quality of the leads.

I'm I'm literally a meanie, like I literally go, don't fill out this form, go away if you don't wanna have a conversation with us.

Yeah.

So one of our, just an example, like we've got, everyone's got really cool incentives and we had this one financial planner guys and we thought, hey, let's run one of those luxury escape holiday promotions.

Uh, and so we were a bit resonant to do it because we thought we'd have a, a whole bunch of low quality leads and so we, we didn't actually turn that on.

What we did was we used that in a different way.

It's like we can use that but not at the front end of the funnel.

We wanna make sure we've got qualified people who represent the perfect avatar of our target market.

Not prize pigs who are not gonna be have enough in superannuation to qualify as a client.

But yeah, we want people who are qualified.

But the way we use that promotion was, Tracy talked about 40% of self booking, which is that's magical.

That's so good.

And what we did, we used that promotion, that luxury escape promotion just to increase the show up rates.

So once we already had the qualified client and they'd already gone through and booked an appointment just for showing up and, and may maintain that appointment, that's when we used the promotion.

So it was just a timing, it's making a cake.

You've gotta get the order right?

'cause if you don't have a cake, you've got a science experiment, right?

So it's just, you can use something but you can use it correctly and then the correct execution makes all the difference between a cake and an experiment.

So maybe it could be something like that too.

Yeah.

How many messages do you guys have?

So if someone opts in, what, what I would love to see is, I don't know if you could show us a, like one of your ads that you use where they're long copy and rappel and attract and, and I'd also be curious about the number of messages and how many of them are text and and email and that sort of thing.

Just a, a high level overview.

All right, I'll have to go find an, I'll go find one of our ads for you.

But basically, so how our campaign configuration is if they don't respond, we put them into a no response follow up.

But it's like literally these are the messages and then after the no response one we've got a three month or six month or 12 month follow up.

But you can see here this is one day, the next day's an email, the next day's a text message two days later is another text message three days later is another text message and then we wait.

So very similar to that and it depends on the client as well if we're allowed to do it and spend the money you want.

'cause Twilio's quite expensive so I think these guys spend about $4,000 a month just on text messaging.

So the more they let me spend the more text messages I'll put in, I'll just see if I can find our, 'cause this is all being moved to workflows so I've gotta find you out, no response follow up and I'm not in here that much.

My, okay, so then we move into here.

So this is after another seven days I've been trying to get ahold of you.

Can you please let me know if you're still interested in studying or if you've changed your mind?

I'll keep trying to get, I'll keep trying to reach you unless you tell me otherwise.

'cause we want people to opt out if they're not, if they have no intention of studying or no intention of getting more information, then at this point I want them to opt out.

We leave them in the database obviously to spend, to send out special offers and things.

And then this is, so this is the one I was telling you about where my client went.

I hate that it's terrible.

But we do get responses from this email here And that's a message to market match as well based on the specific audience and the specific course.

We probably wouldn't do that with a financial planning client as such 'cause they're a bit of a stuffier.

I would if I was the financial planner, but then wait seven days and then it goes into another campaign.

Um, sorry, what was that?

No, I said that's nice.

That's nice.

So I, I'd love to see, I dunno if you've got any ads but just to see how you pull them in with lead ads 'cause Alright, Lemme see if that's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop sharing my screen and if you guys talk and I will go and find, I've just gotta go into Does, does anyone have any questions for Simon?

Why Tracy's digging that up?

Have to None yet.

All right.

Let's see.

I'm just, I've just actually brought up the ad library.

Yeah, I've seen someone say that I should have.

I should have.

I've got my account banned.

I should have requested the review.

Look, that can happen from time to time.

Facebook can just be weirdos.

Some of their people aren't particularly well-trained.

Well I had a friend of mine reach out to me and she said Facebook has gone glitchy.

So I've been on to customer support for nearly two weeks now and we had our team just jump in there and fix it within about 15 minutes.

'cause their support aren't particularly well-trained and they just weirdos from time to time.

But we've had accounts resurrected.

So definitely getting a review is a cool idea.

Advertising on Facebook would be amazing if you didn't have to advertise on Facebook.

That's correct.

I'm actually gonna go into our ad account because Oh cool.

Uh, I think Facebook have made their ad set up deliberately complicated.

So if you're not an expert in it, you're screwed basically.

I dunno how, I dunno why they make it so hard for your average Joe to set up an ad.

Yeah.

I don't know how people in business, if you're not like doing this stuff all day every day, I don't know how people have got a chance to No they don't.

No.

They'd be given up.

Yes.

They've got a couple of advertisers who've got millions of dollars in rev in ad spend.

Yeah.

Um, and there'd be people in our community who do that a hundred thousand dollars a month kind of stuff.

$10,000 a month.

A month.

Right.

But even if you less than that, the review buttons don't even come up.

I've got another client at the moment, we've been going through with a, um, they can't even click on the review button to understand why they can't, why Facebook won't accept their identification.

Like they've got photos of passports and birth certificates and submission to say this is who I am.

And Facebook will go, no, that's not right.

Too bad you have accounts locked.

Bad leaders are, yeah, We've got a client who's at accounts being banned and we were told we can't tell you what the violation is 'cause that breaks like privacy.

Oh yeah.

But you need to appeal against the violation.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

But they won't tell you what the violation is.

Okay.

I've, I've, um, got one of the ads up here.

All right.

So you can see here, it's super long.

So wanna work with youth, be the one person who makes difference in a young person's life now more than ever, blah blah blah, blah, blah.

You'll be helping them too.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Then we talk about the money.

Please only fill in the form if you're serious about wanting to learn so that you can support young people who have very difficult lives.

This is a job that requires empathy and dedication to wanting the best for young people.

After you fill in this form, we will a hundred percent be calling you to chat about the course and whether it's the right path for you.

Good example of an ad trace.

I get, I do get in trouble, I do get in trouble from Facebook for telling people to click to fill in the form.

Like I've had that be flagged as an issue before, but I still do it because it works.

So how's that Scott?

Yeah, no, that's really good.

That's really good.

I just wanted everyone to see like the full picture from start all the way through and what's Yeah.

What you're finding is working.

Yeah, that's great.

That's really good.

You Can see where's our ad library.

You can see like a bunch of our ads in here for these guys.

Gil General know who our client is.

This is a, like another ad that's gone really well for us.

'cause it talks about how moms of guilt, you wanna be able to go back to work and be guilt free.

This all comes from our profit profiling.

So Scott, that document when I say can you write a copy?

'cause I don't wanna be a copywriter anymore.

I don't wanna be a copywriter when I grow up.

So it's the, the strategy document that we go through when we start working with a client and we delve into those emotional issues.

And that's how I write the copy from this.

So this stuff is very similar.

Can't can't see the, I don't know why it doesn't let us show the ad anymore.

I don't know, but you guys can go and have a look at the ads that are working for us and how long they are and what we say to people, all that sort of stuff.

Yeah, that's great.

That's excellent.

Uh, thanks.

Thanks so much guys.

I think that.

Yeah, that, that was a great presentation.

I love the, the detail you went into and like the specifics.

And I think the big takeaways for me was like the whole Facebook lead ads can really work and the importance of that follow up and that s m s follow up.

And I think a lot of people would be like, oh, I'm gonna upset people.

But you are proving it's, you're proving it's working.

So the big thing you, which mean Mark is about is it's like stuff that's working.

Yeah.

Stuff that's working now and like diving into the specifics.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank thanks so much for, uh, yeah, for sharing this.

If anyone wants to see anything I don't like, I like keeping stuff private for clients and stuff and Bruce is always happy for me to talk about his stuff.

I've got a really good relationship with him and we've been working together, I know five or six years, but if anyone wants to have a chat or ask any questions about what we are doing or any of that, feel free to reach out.

Like my email address is in the thing that we've got a link somewhere to my calendar if you wanna book in.

Yeah.

I might pop that in the group trace if, if people wanna have a chat Yeah.

Pop pop it in the Slack group and pop it in the, pop it in the chat here as well.

So yeah.

Do, yeah.

Yeah.

Well The last thing, last thing I wanted to say was just as a, a third point is you don't have to have everything working perfectly.

And I was going to allude to that story that we talked about where we had that client that generated $1.2 million, uh, in the first month that we launched that campaign.

It took us a little while to, to build out the campaign, but when we launched it, yeah, it was like 1.2 and I remember saying, Hey Scott, you've gotta help us with some copy 'cause we're a bit stuck with our next one.

And it's gonna be a reiteration, but it's gonna be an end of calendar year, not end of financial year because the financial year works so well.

And I remember Scott saying, you wrote $1.2 million with this.

It was like, it was like a slap in the face, but it was awesome.

And it felt how you take your car to a new guy who's gonna work on the car and they say, who serviced this last?

Well here we go.

But it was awesome.

I just, Tracy and I, we'd laugh for a good day about that.

It was like, oh my god.

Yeah.

Did that with s**t copy.

We did that with s**t copy.

Imagine what be like with some good copy and yeah, we should have shown that page.

'cause I didn't mind it actually, Scott, I thought it was okay and it's, I guess what you don't know that's holding you back, but just to know that guys, uh, I know you guys are all running really successful agencies and, and businesses and that's cool, but I think for me it's always encouraging to know that a group like this is really important because they can cover your weaknesses and networking with people is, is such a wonderful thing to do.

But even being good is enough, right?

We are nervous about talking to you guys today too.

And I'm talking to Tracy going, Hey Tracy, you're amazing.

I know I'm, but we just wanna make sure we're committed to giving you some valuable nuggets here that can move the needle in your business.

So hope we've been able to do that.

And just to, to encourage you, you don't have to be, gosh, a, a master of everything.

It's okay to be okay at some stuff and yeah, you can get really good people like Scott in to come and do your copy, which is what we've done now that we're grownups.

You Mean now that you Can afford him?

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That makes a difference too, Tim, for sure.

That's Always helpful.

But guys, hope that's helpful and yeah, we'll pop a link.

I'm happy to share out any more of our messaging privately with anyone who wants to see like that financial planning campaign and some things like that.

More than happy to share our stuff.

Yeah.

And some of the clients that we've got apart from the R T O education space, we've got legal, financial, we've even got some weird ones.

'cause a lot of our business is referral.

We've even got a, like a tech startup, a s x listed company who's on onboard with us.

So yeah, we've done some good work in some interesting spaces as well.

So if we can help you, if you've got any questions about anything that we've done in those niches, please uh, feel free to, to reach out and we're yeah.

Happy to share.

Yeah, no, a awesome, uh, Jason said this has been great, and John said, awesome guys, thanks so much.

Very useful.

And Ken said, thanks Smy and Tracy, very interesting.

Your willingness to share this info is much appreciated.

So that's, that's great.

Thanks.

Thanks guys very much.

Uh, very much appreciated.