Overview:

The podcast discusses how to segment customer data to better target different market groups. Nick demonstrates using pivot tables to analyze purchase data and identify higher lifetime value segments based on factors like gender and appeal. Segmenting the weight loss market by motivation, like for a wedding, was given as an example. Data can show what types of people are buying and why, informing messaging and campaign testing.

While large data sets provide more statistically significant insights, practical learnings can still come from smaller samples to rapidly test changes. The discussion also touched on ensuring marketing scales by having the right specialized team and business processes in place to support growth.

Automatically-Generated Transcription:

Now we're onto to, I'm gonna move across to Nick, Nick au a thinking with au session.

I think this is the third one.

We, we've gotta name it thinking with Thau.

'cause Nick, I first met Nick, it was several years ago.

It was before, it was right at the beginning of Lead Talk.

So lead talk was just, it was in the ing stage, let's say where is where it was.

And I was just amazed with the way Nick thought, like his mind's, 'cause he comes from a, he's got the investment banking background and he is just got probably one of the most eclectic thinkers that I've come across today.

Nick is gonna be talking about how to scale a business, so how to take it to that, to that next level.

With that introduction, I'll hand it over to you, Nick.

I'll make you a co-presenter.

So if you do wanna share anything you, you can, I'm glad this has been recorded.

I might show it to my wife what you said about me.

Alright.

Share screen.

Okay, You can, you can see my screen okay?

Yep.

Looks good.

Alright, Perfect.

Today's presentation gonna, is gonna be non lead hook centric.

It's all to do with how does, what's the big thing that allows you to scale to, to really high numbers.

And, uh, more recently I've started working with a few clients who are doing seven figure a days actually.

And so this, and it was interesting to, to learn how they operate at that level versus someone who's doing only 10 k a day or 20 k a day.

So that's what this is about.

Alright, so what's the difference between a one K, 10 k, a hundred k, and a million dollars per day campaign?

In practical terms, nothing.

Right?

It is just, you still need a traffic source, you still need ads, you still need an offer.

You still need a mechanism to fulfilling the promise you are making your marketing and ads.

The only difference is market size, right?

So it's debt, solar, auto insurance, investing, real estate, all those big markets is where you're gonna get the big numbers.

So when, so the, the idea here was, but they're also hyper competitive.

So how do you deal with the competitors that that comes up with dealing with the really big markets?

And so most of this presentation is about how do you dissect who you're dealing with?

And then so you can run better campaigns or more efficient campaigns or, or campaigns with much higher r o i.

So that's essentially, it allows you to create many more opportunities.

So when you are working in large market, you, it creates many more opportunities for testing.

It's, that's just the, the an advantage you won't get unless you, you're, you're spending that kind of money or you're working in a big enough market, but, and you also end up getting more and more granular data.

But that doesn't mean that, that you, we can't also use those strategies, right?

So that's what this is for all of us, or lessons for everyone, as in how do you bring those lessons back down to someone who's doing, let's say one k a day or 500 bucks a day?

And the first one is, I only use one tool.

So after working with them, we, they do use a lot of tools, but when you boil it down, it, it all boils down to using only one tool.

And this is the tool that I've been using.

I didn't realize that no one else was actually using it until I started using it with, with the clients doing these big numbers.

But then you can bring it right down to someone doing a few hundred bucks a day as well.

And you don't need any more KPIs and metrics and dashboards and all the other stuff.

It's really how many people actually fully use Google ga.

And the answer is probably no one because it's just got so much stuff sitting in it.

And so we need, all we need is a more granular understanding of the various who's in our market.

So what, why is someone buying our product or not?

Just that what are the different segments that are buying our product, the different clusters and their specific needs.

So for example, let's look at something we are familiar with, uh, weight loss.

Now weight loss can be split into many markets.

I'm just picking three here for example, as an example.

The first one is six pack ads market where you're dealing with your diabetes and health issues.

Also perhaps losing weight for a wedding or something of that sort, which is gonna be more regarding to a circumstance.

So similarly, you, you can break up any number of ways in which someone wants to buy a product.

So though the final product may be, take my pill to lose weight, how you you sell that depends on what side, the market segment you're going after.

So it's about understanding what are these clusters that are popping out from the data.

So normally what we do is we do our research to work out, oh, these are the four markets I think I want to go after.

And then we start running campaigns.

And this is reversing the whole thing and saying, what does the data show in terms of who the market is or, or who are these people that are buying from us and what are the reasons they may be buying from us?

So it's just not spending, and unfortunately, and even guys who are doing really big numbers, no one is spending a lot of time thinking about what is it that someone is buying here and, and, and what are the different clusters that we could go after.

This really opens up the, it, it opens up the addressable market at, at a lower cost.

And I'll, and I'll share that shortly.

So what's the tool?

It's your pivot table.

It's in a Google Sheets, it's in um, Excel.

It's free.

Alright, basically, so what you're doing is you're taking the traffic data, you're taking the device data.

If you're using quizzes decisions, those, you can have that data.

You can have your revenue data in any number of interactions that they have inside your or funnel over whatever period they want.

And therefore you can include your psychographic data, demographic data.

The two ways of getting this, number one is to just ask, um, for example, through a quiz typeable thing, uh, you male or female.

The other one is that there are third party a p i sources available now.

So I can actually take your email and, and send it to a third party resource.

It'll send back information about who they think you are.

And that data does exist so you can actually append extra data to whatever data you actually have as well as for this analysis.

So all building is just a massive table.

It's got all sorts of information in it, and when you start slicing and dicing it up, you end up looking something like this.

So this is a dummy data set just to, just to share what you can gain.

The first thing is the, I'm looking at the average lifetime value.

So basically just a total revenue.

And in this case, uh, I split up the, the, the data, uh, the pivot table into showing me male and female and the various ad appeals that I use in my marketing.

So I can see here that guys, uh, from appeal c this may be like the six pack ads.

Uh, let's say for example, that was our appeal, uh, we were doing.

Um, so that's where bulk of the market currently, how we've got our funnel set up.

This is where the bulk of the market is.

So what's the first action you could take is you could actually just say, yep, we're not gonna run any traffic to, to the females.

We're not, we're not gonna run any traffic over here or go through a strategy of, of how else you can use the data.

So the other thing I like about pivot tables is that you, you you really just drag and drop the columns in rows and automatically just re redo the data.

So you can actually be quite playful with the data and be quite curious as to where is this going, what else can I learn from this?

So let's say for example, you came across this and you're like, you know what guys?

Resume will with appeal.

Let's see if we look at that same data with hair color.

So I've got, which, which appeal with a hair color.

Let's say this was a hair color campaign.

Who's buying, what do my revenues look like from hair color versus the appeal?

So why did A P L C get this extra income here?

So maybe you can go and look at the funnel.

Perhaps you looked at imagery, maybe the language that was using on the, on, on the landing page and the ads resonated with this particular type.

But does that mean that these other markets are bad?

Not at all.

All it means is, uh, to use fairy muscle spray, you wanna peel and stick you, you peel and stick these guys out into their own funnels and by making changes and seeing if they resonate better.

So all you're doing is you are understanding bulk of where your revenue's coming from.

What do these people look like?

And you strip them out to, into their own funnel and you're doing it at the, almost at the market segment level rather than the keyword level.

So by one step deeper, i i this is not just to show you that you can actually go quite complex so you can actually draw this is female buy hair color versus ad appeal.

So here we see that, that guys with black hair are spending all the money.

How, how would I use this information?

I'd go and start changing all my advertising to, to having only images of guys with black hair.

And I would try and remove the, the, the other type of people out of it to resonate even further with this.

Similarly, stop targeting and bidding for the, the other types of people that are not working in this fund.

Right?

So just to go through just one final one.

This is the male and female buying income across the ad appeal.

And similarly now I'm learning that it's people who are making 50 K or more, uh, are, are are spending the bulk of the money here.

How is that important or, or, or what does that tell us?

So you've got agenda split.

You've got your, uh, age split.

You've got income split, you've got the hair color split and essentially it goes onto whatever data you're capturing inside your funnel that'll allow you to do this sort of analysis.

And you really are getting a much clearer picture of who's actually buying versus who you thought was buying.

And that opens up a lot of, lot opportunities for, for testing basically is is what the, the guys at the high volumes are able to do.

So the feedback loop is how do you use this data now for testing?

So firstly is, let's say if I learned about this, what could I do perhaps as a new traffic source, maybe I need to move into LinkedIn more.

Maybe I need to go to Twitter more.

Maybe I need to go offline, maybe direct mail or perhaps as a list broker out there who's, who threw the profile of who I'm learning is, is spending most amount of money with me.

Perhaps there's a, there's another way in which I can get access to that group of people.

So different traffic sources, better targeting in your Google, Facebook, or any of the ad platforms that you're using.

'cause you have very clear idea about who's spending money with you, you're copying can change.

So let's say if I learned that these are all guys in their fifties, how would I change that?

I could change the images of that I'm using in my marketing to resonate with that specific, uh, avatar or demographic or psychographic.

That's that purchasing my product.

Similarly, you can change the look and feel of the funnel based on what you're learning, the tone, the languaging that you use, or even the tone through the imagery, making it something look very aggressive, something looking cool and green or perhaps red and aggressive.

You can actually play with that.

Your hooks and appeals change as well based on what you're learning about, who's resonating with the market.

And finally the offers.

And then the last one is your automation sequences can also change based on who they're, so here what you could do is you could set up a funnel and you, as you learn more, you, you start putting them into their own little categories and then you have their own way of communicating with them.

So guys in their fifties may get a totally different messaging and an automation sequence just to a female in their, in her twenties and meeting some other profile.

Could they get there totally separate And this is exactly what's happening that's allowing these people to scale to those numbers.

In fact, I worked with one person they were doing from about two 50 K to a million bucks.

And, and, and most of the work was not on the traffic side.

Yes, there was some work there, but bulk of the work was in the actual funnel.

Gaining a better understanding of who is buying your stuff and then creating, uh, their own sequences and their own, um, sort of way in which they transition through the, the funnel or the customer journey.

And don't forget the rest of the business.

Okay?

So I've, I've done it myself a few times and I've had a few clients who, who've done it where you focus just on the marketing and, and, and you blow up the rest of the business.

'cause at the end of the day, someone still has to deliver the goods.

So while you may say, Hey, you'd be nice to 10 x my revenue may 10 x my leads 10 x my whatever, but who's gonna do the work and or who's gonna do the fulfillment?

If it's a downloadable ebook or something, then not much required.

But what if it's where real work needs to happen behind the scenes for customer service or for production of, of products and services, any of those sort of things.

You, you will break that part of the business.

So oftentimes I, I tell most people, go fix that first or get a better understanding of how you're gonna scale that before you look at marketing.

That's not just, say, marketing is not important, but end of the day the marketing problem is easy, is easier to fix than the rest of the business part.

It's far di more difficult to scale people, it's far more difficult to build a customer service team that from a, from one to a hundred people.

But buying media is far easier.

So that's not to say that one is more important than the other is just realize that it's actually a entire plumbing system that you're running in your business.

And wherever your weak spots are, they will, they will break if you scale too hard.

So don't forget the rest of the business.

And marketing scaling is one small part.

Now comes the execution part.

So who's gonna do all the work?

We, we, we've still looked at the strategy side called this is how we can use the data, who's gonna do the work?

And I was surprised how not a lot of thought has been placed to this.

I'm sure intuitively all know what to do with this, but let's break it down.

So the first part is the strategy.

This is where using guys like Scott who work with many funnels gets quite handy 'cause they'll share ideas with you.

And this is the primary reason why someone uses companies like McKinsey and Booz Allen and the last consulting firms is firstly is to cover your bum if something goes wrong.

But the other one, what are the ideas that we are not thinking of that, that we could be using here?

So that is a strategy component.

Generally the copywriter slash market will take care of this, but I'll share you that in the next slide about getting the right people in the past.

So the process next comes the, the the copy part, you know, which is, includes the format as well, text, images, video, wrong sales letters, advertorials, email, s m s, all that stuff.

Who's gonna write the copy stuff?

And I've seen clients where they come up with a strategy but then they give someone else to do the writing part.

They, they're not necessarily the same, same person or even the same task.

Third one is the design, the look and feel.

The distinction I'm gonna draw here is that designing is a separate function to coding.

Sometimes we'll get someone on on on Upwork or something and he's a great creator of H T M L and C S Ss and we rely on him to also do your design part for you.

Not the same task should be in two separate functions.

Sometimes you'll find one person who can do both.

But that is quite rare that both can do both jobs really well.

The dev, this is the, your technical creation of the funnel.

Now you're tracking analytics.

A lot of people struggle with this.

Um, working with guys who are doing some serious numbers.

Not everybody can do this well at all.

And with the iOS update all this sort stuff, it's getting more and more complex and a lot of people are being left behind or not being able to, uh, extract the most amount of money out of their funnel because the tracking part is what's lacking.

And the capability to do this really is also not readily available.

Um, 'cause uh, uh, there've been a lot of guys that are spending two, three grand getting the, the tracking fixed.

And then when I've had a look at it, I'm like, no, it's still, it's still not firing properly or, or there's all sorts of errors and stuff in it.

So this is a critical part 'cause this tells us that the data part comes out of this.

Uh, then comes the media buyers.

They, it's a specialist skill.

Now if someone tells me he knows Twitter and LinkedIn and Google and G D N and YouTube and Facebook really well, uh, run, don't walk 'cause there's a very, it, yeah, it's, it is too difficult now to find someone who has got a phenomenal grasp of multiple traffic of, of, of the, of multiple ad networks at the same time at at least not to move to the volume that you want to.

There, there are nuances in everything now.

And lastly, the review process.

How are you gonna, how are you gonna do that?

What's the regular review thing look like?

So now getting the right people on the bus, so you have your marketed copywriter, this is your strategy slash copy sometimes can be more than one person.

Um, and, and sometimes, you know, you don't want to do the copy part because it's just a lot of work.

Um, and, uh, but making sure that the copy person is, is, is writing to an overall strategy and overall plan is what's important.

Don't, don't just write copy for copy sake.

The designer creates the markup in the framework.

The dev and the coder creates your lenders in your funnel and your analytics and, and tracking tech.

Uh, they can be the same person, but these two can be the same, but sometimes not because the analytics and tracking part is becoming quite specialized as well.

And then lastly and lastly, your your media buyers.

So this, these are the kind of like the five broad people that you have on the team to make the scaling part work really well.

It's all nice and well to talk about scaling, but it's ensuring that you've got the right team in place with the right capability is what's gonna allow you to do that as well apart from being in the right market.

And that sort of ends the, the short presentation on on on what it actually takes to be scaling to these sort of numbers.

Can Scott, Scott, we can't hear you mate.

Scott Audio.

Oh, can you hear me now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's, that's good.

Is anyone else's head spinning After that?

Yeah, what I found the most, it's just always good to see you go through that segmentation of the campaign because most, you know, uh, most of us come from that, those days where you threw an ad in the, in the Sunday newspaper and you were done.

Whereas today there's just so many, so much depth and detail that you can go through.

And I, I've personally found like whenever you do go into those niches, like I remember recently we did one actually with, with a client with Ken I was working on with Ken and they were running property seminars and rather than just going generic ads, we customized the, the top part of that ad depending on the, on the area where they were presenting ads.

So if they were at Aubrey Wodonga, it'd be like Aubrey Wodonga has gone through a tough period over the last 12 months and this has happened and then the rest remained the same and it bumped response and gave a lower cost per click, lower conversion, all of that sort of thing.

Yes, that's great Nick.

I might just open it up for questions and see what questions everyone's got.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Nick, I'm curious, at what point do you think, I guess there's enough data that individual variations won't skew your results only had 10 clients, for example, you were testing that's a, That's A one could completely throw it out, but what point do you go number of segments by dataset size to actually get some meaningful results?

Okay, yeah.

So you mentioned a very interesting question and one with a practical limit.

So for example, if you're a small trade and you're only going get a hundred leads a, a month or something, uh, how does this translate?

The you don't need, yeah, it may not be statistically significant data, but it's practically significant.

The, if I see that everyone was spending lot, lot, lots of money with me, even if I have only let's say 35 data points and, and if, if if 90% of those are female, then I can reasonably assume though it may not be significant that that's something I can test with.

So what at that point I recommend is, is rip that out into its own campaign and see if that's gonna generate a higher r o i than what you currently do.

And that's the ultimate, the the test, yes, it's nice to have two 5 million lines in a dataset to get statistically significant data, but the learnings can immediately translate to, to fast and rapid changes in your funnel, even, even if not statistically significant is certainly is practically significant.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, So I found this very exciting, like what very deep, like you really went quite deep and uh, you showed us how to do the pivot tables and get the data and then eventually we got to that we need a large number of specialists to be able to run that at that level of scale.

Correct.

So at that level of scale, how do companies go about getting these, because obviously you need people who are like nine on 10 or 10 on 10, correct.

So how do they go about assembling this team of super specialists?

Yeah, so sometimes internally developed, uh, other times they're using third party consultants as well.

I see.

So, So say for example, yeah, I think a, a fellow member, like he, he specializes in Google traffic so you might bring him to just to do your traffic part.

Yeah.

And yeah, so it's a combination of what you have in-house versus who you're gonna bring in to to supplement your internal capability.

And what ends up happening over time is that the skills do transfer inside as well.

Uh, having said that, the day level guys are hard to keep for obvious reasons.

Yeah.

So, so oftentimes it is gonna be an external arrangement that you have with a consulting, uh, company as well, uh, to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So perfect.

Yeah, very insightful.

Thank you.

No Problem.

Thank you.

And that's, yeah, that, that's great and I think that's, yeah, I think that's why groups like this are so good because marketing these days it's a little bit like a construction site where you've got your electricians and your plumbers and your, all of these different specialist skills.

Yeah.

I think it's a bit of a team effort to pull it all off.

Yeah.

The days of running one lander, one ad I I think I'm truly gone, but at, at least not in Australia and the US and maybe if you're running traffic in Fiji or something, you can get away with with one ad and one lander 'cause no one runs ads there.

But, but otherwise not at all.

It's, it's becoming quite competitive.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

And any other questions for, for Nick?

No, that's, that's good mate.

Nathan, I love your background man.

It looks like you've had it done from Vogue Magazine or something.

This one.

Yeah, we did have an interior designer come in.

Funnily enough, you should sit this way.

Looks s**t house every time we do good from that one.

It's just post-it notes and it's a mess.

No, it's, it's almost as good as Ari's, but you know, like that's, It's uh, that's cool.

What we might do, we'll go into, into breakout rooms.

So I'll I'll set us up with, with four four breakout rooms.

And I think the theme of this, of this is probably, I think it's scale and segmentation.

Meaning what can you do to scale?

And at the same stage is there a way that you could segment your market?

'cause I think that was probably a big takeaway from a lot of people from this.

Is there a way that you can segment your market into different areas like you showed with weight loss Nick to, to get a better result sort of thing.

So I'll, uh, yeah, I'll, I'll do those breakout rooms and we'll come back in about, in about 20 minutes do recreate.

So automatic.

So we'll go four breakout rooms.

Hey guys, we're all, all back again.

So I moved you in the beginning Jasmine, 'cause you're in the same room as I Know you guys move.

Scott Can probably talk to each other anytime.

Oh that's, that's excellent.

So, um, uh, I mean Nathan, do you wanna start from, from our group what your main takeaway was?

We went off topic pretty quickly, to be honest.

We were talking about like our own scalability issues and the ways that we tackled our own scalability.

It seemed like for, 'cause in my group we had, I had Anoop and Scott and it seems like one of the biggest ones in there was just to make sure that we're taking on the right customers and make sure you take on with the biggest thing inside of that is if you take on customers that are already doing well, even though the curtains are on fire in their marketing.

That's just the dream scenario.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think getting quick wins from, you know, for the, for those clients, for the stickability was one of the things we, we touched on as well.

Yeah, that's good.

Ari, your group, We just shared different ideas.

We did.

There was a discussion quickly that live events are coming back, which is good news.

People get more comfortable doing live workshops, which is nice to hear.

We did talk about there was a challenge, how to move somebody from a cold ad to a phone consultation and the discussion that there was, someone was using the idea of taking somebody from an ad to a private Facebook group where you automatically create, uh, trust there and ad content and then people are then moving them from there to a, to a phone call for a consultation.

Talk about that a little bit and some segmentation on AI and Google AdWords that replicates what they're doing in Facebook.

So it'll be covered a few things.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Cold ad to Facebook group and then to the consultation.

I like that that's yeah, that, that's a bit different.

You get the really good engagement.

Yeah.

And we've got two other groups.

Anyone wanna be the spokesperson?

Kate and Judith can share.

I was just gonna say we were lucky enough to have Nick in our group and we talked about a number of things, but at the end it was particularly interesting.

I wonder whether they're doing a whole topic on this just around the different data privacy issues that are starting to arise in around the world in this area when it comes to digital marketing and the impact that has on funnel building on ads on trackability scaling.

Judith, did you have any other highlights?

We talked about a lot.

That was the summary.

I think just, I like the overall idea of being playful with it.

Yes it is data and it tends to get very clunky, but the idea of being curious and playing and seeing what can I learn rather than going in very set to see what I want, be open to what it might teach us rather than what we hope to get out of it.

Yeah.

I I like that.

I like that.

And I love data both quantitative and qualitative.

'cause I just think you cannot write Yeah, you cannot communicate your message well without that data, I don't believe.

Because if you survey your clients, you find out what you're thinking, you know exactly how to enter the conversation in their mind.

And then you combine that with what Nick said, where you're actually analyzing what's worked, what's didn't in all of these different sort of niches and yeah, it's just, it's so powerful and the creativity actually comes out of that when it's done well.

So Kate on that, is there anyone who's good at data privacy issues?

Is anyone interested in that or would that be data privacy issues stuff?

It's not me.

I, I, I deal with that every day.

Oh, you do, Nick.

Oh, We're sitting on a lot.

It keeps me up at night, mate.

Well, I'm thinking with Charel for four maybe in a few Months.

Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Only if it's of interest.

Yeah, it's, it's uh, it it's dry as hell man.

It'll Be the nickel shows like welcome to the Nick Al show.

What You got to teach us today, Nick.

Yeah.

I'll, I'll be like, I'll be like Oprah.

Oh, the, the vault Oprah Shake the monarchy here.

All Um, who, who was in the uh, the fi the final group that yet Tim, I I think for us, and we talked about where this kind of analysis becomes really valuable to a company and we decided there's probably this stage of growth for smaller micro businesses where the amount of re value you get out probably is counteracted by the amount that you'd put into actually getting the data in the first place.

Right?

And I think we were talking about, I guess this optimization of one versus zeros.

Yes, we could do some incredible analysis on our Facebook ad to go, what, what do I need to attract?

But if the client doesn't have a referral strategy in place at all, or a testimonial strategy in place at all, they'll get better bang for buck by putting the testimonial strategy in place.

Right?

But if they've got all the pieces in, in an effective kind of end-to-end customer journey, then we can start to look at this sort of thing to go, now how do we optimize different parts of this to actually make it effective?

Right.

And I think there's, there's probably this point where for a small business particularly there, there, there may not be the return on investment for, for doing this kind of analysis, then there's massive return on investment to do it before then we, we see start, potentially start to see some diminishing returns because maybe the audience size or segmentation isn't there.

And while we got some great data, we can't necessarily act on it effectively.

I think Mickey was talking about the fact that a certain point, I know Blake and Simon have talked about this before and a certain point, your Facebook, it just becomes not effective 'cause he just not getting people to log in and if you show your ad 30 times to someone as opposed to five 30 times just p****s 'em off and five times as effective whilst the data's valuable.

It's as much as how we use the data, as what the data is itself.

Actually, Tim, just on that, there was a, a campaign we reviewed a couple of weeks ago now where they're like, it's the same thing.

Why is, why is my conversion dropped?

And so we, we dumped the data from January and we dumped the data from a few months ago and we looked at the profiles.

Facebook was sending us different people for the same ad campaign versus what they did say in January versus back in October or or September.

And so the audience themselves were changing perhaps AI or whatever it was, but the, the person was coming to the site now wasn't the same that they were a few months ago.

Yeah.

And, and there was no way to pick that up.

And so that was, yeah, so especially if you're running pay ads, this sort of thing's getting quite Yeah.

But, but oh yeah, The thing you're definitely starting to run pay your traffic.

I think I would agree with you Nick.

This is Yes.

To be doing.

Yeah, no, that's really good.

And and I think it's a good point you make, Tim is that's, I think that's a real out of the strategist, right?

Is what do we focus on first, second, third, fourth.

Yes.

There's 87 things that you can do in marketing, but it's a prioritizing, which is a real Yeah.

Which is a real sort of mastery that we get after having done it for so many years.

Yeah.

So I think that's, that's great.

Yeah.

Thanks so much Nick.

We.