Overview:

The podcast discusses how Mark transitioned his agency from a traditional model to a paper lead model, where they build websites and generate qualified leads for clients. This has resulted in clients spending more money and Mark making a lot more profit. YouTube has been very successful for lead generation. The ideal client is one who can handle 100 leads per week and has a higher ticket product.

Mark discusses criteria for evaluating clients and shares tips for video ads and webinars that have worked well for lead generation. Overall, the paper lead model has been more lucrative and solved problems around client churn that Mark experienced with the traditional agency model.

Automatically-Generated Transcription:

Let's, let's roll with with Mark.

Mark.

Have I made you a co-presenter?

So what really fascinated me with Mark is Mark has actually made the transition of being an agency like a, a traditional agency.

Like many of us run to a paper per a paper per lead agency.

And I was actually chatting with him earlier this morning and he said literally he said One client is worth 10 clients now with this pay per lead sort of basis.

So we're gonna do, and I thought we've got a lot of people running agencies and that sort of thing on here and it may be something you can incorporate into your business or do a part paid for part pay per lead and that sort of thing.

And it was worth bringing.

Yeah.

Bringing Mark on.

Yeah.

Mark.

Mark, are you, you already there Mate?

Yeah, yeah.

Sorry I'm On my phone so I'm like Oh, there you go.

I can see you now.

Alright.

One client per 10.

It's probably one client per seven to 10.

That's what I might have said.

I hope I said that.

And the reason why that's worked out is I'm feeling like the small fish in a big pioneer.

So forgive me, I was surprised when you asked me to come on and do this.

But anyway, so what happened is for many years been running a typical SS e o AdWords, Facebook ads and so on as most agencies do.

The big problems I was facing all the time, I'm betting a lot of people program not their head when I say this is customers saying, I've just spent $5,000 on ads this month, but I've only made X amount of dollars, say $5,000 in return.

Your systems ain't working for me.

And I've had this with various niches and customers would come and go all the time and we'd be busting our gut trying to make it work.

What I didn't have control over was where we're sending that traffic to.

'cause most of the time when I try to go back to the customer say, look, you'd like to create a landing page or something on your website that's this, what do you wanna do that for?

Then if they agreed, I'd have to talk to their web developer who would often go back to them and say, look, this Mark guy's crazy.

What do do you wanna do this for?

And and they're really more of a graphic designer, web developer so to speak, not a marketer.

And we'd just have these headaches all the time.

So when I first heard about the pay per lead model was about two years ago and I started looking at, I thought it takes away a lot of those problems because when we do the pay per lead model, now we build the websites or we, we build the landing pages, we have the domain names, we own all those assets, we have the campaigns, we own it all.

The customer will pay for a hundred leads.

So we'll have to deliver a hundred leads.

But one of the challenge we had early on was what do we classify as a lead compared to say Scott Bywater wants a lead, what would you consider to be a good lead?

I'll just pull an example out with one of the guys from that.

We do car, he does car finance for a b n holders and he wanted us to bring in leads just for that because he makes a lot bigger margin on them.

And sometimes the loans could be a, a big track.

One of the, the 300,000 tractor came in for him a couple of weeks back and he makes larger commissions.

So he now considers and we're happy to do it 'cause it works.

A good lead for him is first name, surname, phone number, email address, how much you're looking to borrow when they're looking to borrow it.

Tick the box that says, do you have any defaults on your name, yes or no?

We found a lot of people lying that by the way.

And the last one is, are you okay for us to give a get a call, give you a call back today.

And if they don't tick all those boxes yet, then it's not a lead for him.

So as you might imagine, people get through the process and it's spending money on ads where it's not working.

So we had to figure out how much is it gonna cost us.

And currently he's spending $80 plus G s T per lead.

The quality of leads coming through, he's converting currently 23% around about there fluctuates a little bit from week to week, but it's never gone down in the last month and a half below 20%.

So on his margins he's now making a lot a hell of a lot more than what he's spending on advertising.

And it, it works out a lot better.

Now the thing is, there's no contracts.

I don't have to offer contracts because if you're bringing the leads in and the numbers are adding up, they're only gonna want to go in one position which is ahead.

How do I get more of this if their business can handle it?

And that's another problem we had when we started.

We started with businesses that were too small and they were growing too quick and it created a whole bunch of problems.

Uh, and these were things we learned in the early days.

So what we've done now, if we've got a specific funnel that we've bring people in through the pre-qualifies 'em first before we get onto a phone call and the next phone call after that, it's usually to make sure we understand their business just as good if not better than they do, which is usually about a 45 minute call.

Uh, I had a call yesterday with someone mentioned earlier Scott, and we're on that phone call with her for nearly an hour and a half, which is way over time.

But the after that now we come back for a third meeting, it's usually about three meetings before we bring somebody on.

It's a bit of a process, but once they're on the, the, the workload, you can spend so much more time working on the one client than what we did with another client that's whinging 'em out spending say $3,000 a month with this car loan guy.

Now he's up to 16 grand a month, sorry, a week on leads.

And he's our best one so far.

Another smaller one.

We've got solar panels when we started in the solar panels.

So this has been really good from day one.

He's purchasing a hundred leads a week, can't really go above that.

And the mistake we made there, he was just too small where he didn't want to grow beyond that.

And he's only got he himself, his son and another coworker.

So there's only three of them.

Doesn't want to get any bigger than that.

But what we've got now with this, it's starting to happen is we're starting to produce too many leads and he can handle, so we've now got a model that we can now take to another solar panel company.

So hey look, this is what we're doing, blah blah blah.

If they're skeptical and we think they're a really good fit, we could say, would you like to try 10 leads for free?

Now we've got this model that's already working that we can take it pretty much to, to anyone else in the niche.

And the other big challenge we had running the, so the traditional agency was when people leave now how do we replace them?

It's so difficult for us to reach out to people and play the chasing game.

I always felt like I was chasing in that model when now it's very much the opposite.

So when somebody left to replace 'em was always very difficult for us.

Now because we own all the assets that are produced in the leads, it's not on their AdWords account, it's not on their YouTube account, it's not on their Facebook, it's all on us.

And when they leave we can just take it to someone else in that industry and prove that it's working.

So it makes that a lot easier in that part, if that makes sense.

Yeah, no ab absolutely.

Who's the perfect client for, so for this sort of thing, they're obviously gotta be scalable that they can accept the lead.

Mm-hmm.

They're gonna be high ticket.

Is there like five or six criteria you go through?

There's quite a bit of criteria.

Number one is we've gotta make sure that they can afford to come in there.

They're a big enough company.

So the questions we tend to ask in the preliminary stage, there's a form we send them before our second meeting and it takes about five minutes to fill in.

One of the things we ask about how many sales staff they have, how many people are on this.

And it gives us the scope of how big they are.

Also, do they have a product that's usually a high ticket price?

If it's a low ticket, $100, $200, it's still doable but it's a lot more difficult to do that.

One of our clients at the moment, one of his products is $99 and it's actually working out, but at the end of last month it did $13,000.

Like it's not big turnover.

Uh, and that's only one of his products.

Sorry, I'll just quickly hand this one.

So what happened there was he's got other products which work out a lot better.

One of the products we sold was a $497 package.

In two campaigns we ran over two weeks.

They did $88,000 in sales.

He just couldn't believe this was the biggest month we've ever had.

How, how did you do it?

So you don't need to worry about the hell you need to worry about.

That is happening.

But it's, the paper lead model for us is working out really well.

There was a lot of, and still is some learning to go.

It's only been at it for just over a year now.

But the transition has been customers just don't wanna leave.

We've had two customers leave.

One of 'em was because it was our fault.

We didn't look into what they could handle, uh, to start with.

And we didn't investigate more about that person when starting out.

It was a learning curve for us.

He was our very first client.

So when he left, but we had that model set up, we took it to the, the new person, which is now our best client who's in the, doing the finance for the a b N holders only for vehicles and, and um, machinery, uh, around vehicles and stuff for, for businesses.

So that's working really well there.

There's another one in the roofing industry, another really good niche.

There's no specific niche I can say works the best.

Now it's only early days for us, but there are some other criteria.

So they've gotta have a high ticket.

It must be, I found out it's gotta be more B two C, which B two B are finding that very challenging purely because there's not enough people looking for that product.

So B two C is a really important thing we've decided to almost always stick with at this point.

Other areas.

If I could just actually, I'll just pull up my, my criteria sheet here and that'll help me answer that question.

Just bear with me a second guys.

Uh, alright.

So some of the questions that we like to, to get answered to is, you know, can you manage a hundred leads a week coming in?

The other criteria, that's very important.

Another big learning curve for us was what are they saying to the leads when they come in?

Because let's face it, if I send you a hundred leads, but you'll close your process and you haven't been through say Ari GPA's training for example.

You're gonna be blowing a lot of these leads off and guess what?

Whose fault is that?

They're not gonna accept that responsibility.

They're gonna say, you sending me bad leads.

That was another learning curve we learned at the front.

So one of the criteria we want to know is, would you guys be open for us to listening to your process on what you do when you make a call to the lead when it comes in, how quickly do you contact those leads?

We send it in directly into your C R M.

How long does it take before you contact them?

If we send you 200 leads, are you gonna have trouble doing that?

So all these things come into play 'cause some people can't manage that much.

What else we've got in here?

So there's one question here from Cody as well.

Facebook or YouTube or who are you, whatcha are using?

Big us Facebook still works, but I've gotta admit the last nine months has been very challenging with Facebook for us and from what I can see a lot people had some challenges there too.

We still use it.

Our main sources now, uh, through YouTube with some banner retargeting has been proven to be very good.

We also got a couple of things through press releases that are working as well.

But YouTube's been a very big winner for us right across the board.

We focus a lot of time in that.

To give an example on one of the campaigns I mentioned earlier, 404, sorry, $497 campaign.

We ran this company, they, they were averaging about 15, $20,000 in round figures a month turnover.

We ran this campaign for them that are 120 something thousand dollars, $87,000 of that were just from this one campaign through YouTube and, and some retargeting through banner ads and their cost, the beauty of it was the cost was less than three and half thousand dollars in YouTube ads and it was done over one week and then we brought it back for a revamp a week later and it still did then I think, well all that was 88,000 something dollars.

Uh, the second time we relaunched it did about another 15,000 and it was done over uh, a five day period and then another five day period just purely on YouTube ads and retargeting costs less than three and half thousand dollars.

So this particular company now is what we call a hybrid deal.

It's not just providing leads, is we've done a, what we call a hybrid deal now where they pay us a commission per sale because all the sales are done via the website.

We've had, we've got access to the site now and we've got full permission to, to change whatever we want.

So we've actually engaged, uh, one of our web developers who's now full-time with this guy and uh, whatever things we want, we just give to the web developer 'cause he knows what we do and he can implement it rather fast.

So that's the benefits of some kind of hybrid deal.

I guess it was something we never planned on.

He put it to us.

Uh, we came back renegotiated.

We're on 30% commissions now plus 10% of the members when they rejoined every year.

Uh, we got a a residual on that as well.

So there's so many different types of opportunities by doing this pay per lead model that we just came to us, we didn't even think about it.

There is a learning curve and there is some definite things that are are costly in the beginning that we've been through and, and a lot of mistakes we've made, I must admit.

But the model for it, like back in the digital marketing style of things, I was struggling sometimes like we've had months that we're, we're way under $10,000 and months up closer to 20.

It just fluctuates so much now it's very solid.

It's very solid and there's no contracts with anyone, none whatsoever.

We've tried to find out who's really good at doing if we just found a gentleman recently who's Dan Wardrobe in the UK who actually teaches that paper lead model.

Uh, we bought his course and got into it and there's a lot of things in there that are really good, some things that don't quite work for the way we do it, but very good teachings and some things there.

We're gonna start implementing some, some of his principles too.

So he's quite seasoned at it.

I didn't realize that there's a lot of people out there doing this and I found that our competition is pretty low here in Australia.

Uh, and we're only just beginning in this.

We're still, as far as I'm concerned, even me in this group, I'm just a small fish.

Uh, and Scott, I I was quite surprised when you asked me to speak on something, but look, this is just the honest truth of what I'm experiencing so far.

Yeah, no that's a What do you think from your perspective, mark, is the reason why people don't like agencies don't make the jump to pay per leave?

Like you are saying it's, I dunno, I know about it to be honest.

I know a few agency owners, I've spoken to 'em about it, say, no, that's not for me.

Probably the, it's like anything, the skepticism of not knowing what it actually is.

And I know that I knew that I was ready for a change to be quite honest.

I was ready to give up and just do something else.

Like the money can be good in running a digital marketing agency, but it was never good enough for what I wanted and it was just, there was no stability, none whatsoever in my opinion.

Uh, I'm sure there's some people here that run agencies a lot better than I did and they probably had a better coaches than I've had.

And that's another thing, like I spent so much money on coaches and to this day I think the, the only two coaches that have helped me, one is he is Ari and also a gentleman over in Adelaide who's not on here, but he's a really good business coach.

And out of that, the amount of coaches I've invested in, it just, it hasn't worked for me.

And some of that could be my fault, I'll admit.

But this, I haven't had a coach to help me with this except for just recently joining the Dan Wardrobes course.

And that's just to help refine maybe a couple of things that we've got.

But it's every week it just keeps coming in and customers aren't complaining about anything.

They're not saying How's our AdWords campaign going?

Can you show us?

I don't have to give them any analytics that the leads come in, they make sales, can I get some more of that?

It simplifies a lot of that too.

I do tend to talk a bit with the clients, but it's a more of a, a chitchat and my time, the, the time that we put into it in starting a campaign is usually the first three to four months is full on with one client and you can spend more time with the client 'cause they're spending more with you as opposed to someone gives you three and a half thousand dollars a month to do ss e o for example.

How much time can you spend on that When you narrow that down to a weekly income and if you've got an outsource or someone else doing it, it, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Now you need a more higher end client at at that.

And I'm sure there's a couple of people you think, mark you probably haven't tried this.

I'm not an expert at business, I'm just, I think I'm pretty good at what I do and now we've come across this more or it's working really well for us.

I know you had some more questions there Scott.

Sorry, I'm talking a bit I No, that's, that's fine.

That's fine.

I, I'll throw it out to the group too.

I've got some more questions but I'll be curious just from the group if there's any questions that, that are on people's, the typical people's tongues.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, sure.

Mark, we've already got some clients that you can work with, so I'd love to catch up with you after this and Scott, I'd love for you to be part of that call too 'cause it's, the clients are there.

I I'll say is one thing, we've actually got three people waiting to come on now.

We're just starting uh, a campaign probably today with someone as well in the sales industry currently.

I couldn't actually take any more on, there's only four of us on the team, but I'll be happy to chat and maybe it's something we can do like a couple of weeks down a track.

That'd be awesome.

Appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

Done.

Awesome.

Thanks guys.

And and guys, thank you so much.

I've gotta go 'cause I've got a 1230 but I love this last one.

I'm trying.

Thank you Scott.

Hi.

Awesome.

Thanks.

Thanks Johan.

There you go Byebye.

Thanks Mark.

Bye.

Any, any other questions for Mark?

Yep.

Katie, quick Question.

Yeah, what do you consider a high ticket?

What ideally what kind Of, okay, so I'm looking for someone, if they've got a product that they're selling for around a thousand dollars or more, that could potentially be a good go.

But the mistake we made early on was going into B two B didn't work, did not work and 'cause we've recently joined the Dan Wardrobes course, guess what he's saying?

No B two B I think.

Oh okay, I'll learn that the hard way.

So yeah, if you've got something for a thousand dollars that is good that that could work, you can do smaller ones.

Like I said, we're having success with a guy, one of his products at the moment.

It's just nine, nine bucks.

I'm running it through an automated webinar.

I use Webinar Jam and EverWebinar, I think that's the name of their other product.

And all I've done, I've taken one of his webinars and I've come in at the start of the webinar and introduced him, then it goes live.

And if you look at the quality of his webinar, you'd be like this guy could not possibly sell because he's not a salesman.

But the content he's got is brilliant for what he's doing.

It's all about discharging credit card debt.

And he's sitting there in his shabby shirt, his wife is walking around him while he's doing stuff.

It's very unprofessional.

And then I come in at the end for about five or six minutes and do the sell and the sales just every day there's two, three sales coming in every single day.

And that ad campaign, I go in and look at it think when I looked at it this morning, there's about 160, 170 something sales and $99 and the ad spend on that particular campaign sofa, including banner retargeting, it's like about a thousand bucks.

It's, they're cheap, not big money 'cause it's only, I think it equates about $13,000 after he pays us the 30% commission.

But they're in his list.

They haven't been upsold with anything and because they've already purchased and he does, I convinced him recently to do a, I'm trying to get him to do a weekly but a fortnightly q and a for an hour live on Zoom.

And that's been a real big hit in the last two weeks.

He's done it the last, sorry, four weeks.

He's done it twice.

And I said if you can bring that into a week, it's gonna eliminate a lot of questions.

'cause they're getting about 200 emails a day now down to uh, about nearly half that.

I said if you get onto the, the q and a is once a week, it's only an hour and it eliminates a lot of time you guys have on emails.

So it's interesting how things work out and, and a lot of it's been a lot of testing and measuring for us a hell of a lot.

And not just clients' ads but also how does the model work best 'cause we've never really had a coach on it until just recently.

Can I ask you just a quick follow up question?

Sure.

Um, what type of ads are you doing on YouTube?

'cause obviously it's not or is the client on camera talking head or Are you No, I'll do them.

I'm pretty comfortable on camera and you know, I do it also, what I do is I'm very good with videos I think.

So I do is I work out what do I do in that first five seconds on a YouTube ad, which is so critical.

We quite often come up with about a dozen different things I can use.

So I just test them at the start of a video.

Then I place someone in five to come in with a, an intro.

I just get a cheap intro that comes in and then I come in.

I just deliver some really good content and I try 'cause it's not my product.

So I'm talking about a particular client that we're doing some stuff at the moment.

I talk about this particular person and what I've extended for them and they've got this the end if you'd like to get a hold of this stuff too.

The kind of results I've had, here's what you can do and it's good because this particular person I've actually used their services before so it depends on the situation.

And I'm lucky because I've got a really good business partner who's a real think tank and when I write content or a sales copy using a video, I run over it with him and we just fine tune it and usually we leave it the next day we both come back to it and there's a little bit of fine tuning again.

That's how it's always worked for me like that.

Now I've got two brains to work with.

It really works well then we just put it out and test it.

Small ads, spend a hundred bucks here or 200 bucks there and try a few different things.

And the YouTube's just been brilliant for us.

It's been a real winner and really happy with YouTube at the moment.

Dunno how long it'll last.

But that with some banner retargeting works really well.

Excellent.

Thank you.

That's that's good.

That's good.

And and Cody, I think you had a had a question.

Yeah, it, it's funny actually when Dan was first switching over to the, the paper lead model, it's uh, I wrote, I wrote the uh, the sales letters for him that Oh really?

So you know him About three years.

He Really nice.

Seems really nice guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a nice guy.

He is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But my, my question is around it's YouTube really, so I'm like stuck in the Facebook thing again man.

I'm running, I'm sorry Facebook ads again.

I'm sorry.

I'm in a B two C market.

So you've got any kind of key metrics that you can share that just gimme a ballpark of Okay, if, if you got a click through rate of 0.1% kill the ad or something like that.

I probably should have, 'cause my business partner does all the ads.

I create them.

I probably should have got that off him first, but I can get that off him and, and, and get some stats to Scott to share.

Yeah.

In terms of taking on clients, what, what kind of cost are you looking at?

Where are you?

I I got a $2,500, I got a $2,500 product that I sell through webinar, which I'm selling from Facebook right now.

So it's like something that I'm doing all the ads myself.

So I'm potentially looking at getting out of that as well.

So The big thing with YouTube from Facebook to YouTube for us uh, in round numbers I found the costs have come down to about half right.

And the quality of the leads are a lot better now I think 'cause we can't really pinpoint.

But I think the answer to that, the reason why that is 'cause they're watching a video all the way through now on Facebook.

People can write comments on that ad.

You can disable that on YouTube.

Yep.

Yeah.

You know, and because it's an ad that they're gonna have to find that ad.

But if to pay that there's nowhere to write a comment and all it takes is one negative person to say something negative, oh this guy's looks like a Yeah.

So, and that one thing could take away, it doesn't happen on YouTube.

So what, what would, I dunno if that's a real reason for, sorry, what Would be a ballpark figure to shoot for for say webinar registrations for B two B B two B two C?

Well Look at one now.

So currently on one of the webinars for this guy there's about, it's probably close to the a thousand dollars spend in a two month period and there's been 500 something registrants and there's a hundred and sixty, a hundred seventy six customers at $99.

Now that's just a nine, $9 number, a high ticket item.

I think you probably have a lot less sales realistically of course.

I think with a high ticket item you need to jump on a phone call a hundred percent anything every thousand dollars from my own experience, you've gotta have a phone call, a strategy session, whatever you wanna call it.

But usually up around about the 500 mark are fine.

You can sell 'em through evergreen, don't you Just build it once, find one that works.

It is time consuming as you would know if you're doing webinars, how long it takes to put one together.

And then if you wanna change something and one of the big winners for us using ever webinars, as people start making comments, you can bring them in so they look like live comments.

Anyone that comes in to an evergreen, it fills and looks live to them.

And I think that's another big conversion point using the EverWebinar that we used.

Definitely been the best one we've used so far.

This it's costing you like two bucks a registrant?

Yeah.

On that one, yeah.

The most.

Wow.

Actually no, we're down actually current stats.

Sorry last week.

So I had this discussion with my business partner.

Currently they're down to 70 cents 'cause then it's obviously a lot better now 70 cents are registrant.

Yes.

What What are you charging for those leads?

This is the guy, we've done a deal on a commission, so we're not charging leads anymore.

This is a hybrid deal.

So we're on 30% commission on everything.

And when they register again the new year, 'cause it goes though for the new year we get 10% as a residual and anything they do on that as well.

It's only small commissions but it's adding up.

It's quite substantial at the end of the month with this guy.

I can't really give you a pay per lead on that 'cause we're not doing that with him.

Fair enough.

Yeah, I Dunno if I've been very helpful but Yeah, no, it's just, just highlighting really that YouTube is worth the time and effort to, to That first five seconds is critical.

I've noticed a lot with ads are put on, they're clicking away from it after five, so you only need a small percentage to come through.

And my business partners really good at at getting the right audience in there somehow.

That's his, one of his specialty skills.

It's not mine.

Uh, mine's in the ad creation.

He says to me, how do you do it?

I said, well I've got the same question for you.

How do you do that?

Um, but if we need any statistics or anything, I'll get him to, to give us someone I can pass 'em on to Scott to, to share with me if you like.

Thank You.

No, please do not worries.

I'll definitely be looking recommending YouTube though, from what we've been experiencing.

That's, that's awesome Mark.

And I think people can see why I brought you on.

I think your, you know, your experience in this sort of niche is really powerful and you are, you know, you're right at the coalface.

You've made the shift from one business model to another.

Mm-hmm.

And I think we, we'll go into breakout rooms now probably, probably till about just five minutes to walk to the hour.

The 12, 12 55.

Mm-hmm.

And I think the theme for the breakout rooms, I think probably three breakout rooms is probably the way to go is just how can I shift my model, my business model like John, like Mark has to be, you know, to make it more lucrative is probably the, and if you're an agency it may be what Mark's done, but if you are running some sort of other business Yeah.

How can you make some sort of shift which will Yeah.

Allow you to get Yeah.

Better, a better return on investment on your time invested.

Okay.

I'll lemme see if I can make that happen.

Yep, no, sounds good.

Three breakout rooms, 12 minutes.

We're on our bikes.

Go.

The breakout master Takes, when I close the rooms it takes 60 seconds I guess they get a warning so they can wrap up.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

It's always, it's such a journey, isn't it?

Re you, there's so many sort of train stops along the way, but the fricking train line never finishes.

It's just, it's true.

It's, yeah, but it's mostly fun.

Exactly.

It's challenge, it's challenging.

You gotta really use your, you gotta always evolve and think about how can Yeah, exactly.

Right.

At least when they're old age brains will be working well.

Yeah.

I I think you work, uh, you use that term sweet spot to get that sort of fine tuning.

And the big thing is I make a change in this, this ripple effect of unintended consequences.

My god, I had no idea that was gonna take so much time or cost so much money, I could just stop having ideas.

That would be great.

Oh yeah.

That's, that's great.

Thank, thanks Tom for coordinating the, uh, the breakout rooms.

So we've got, we're just aware we're almost one o'clock.

We might just go quickly around the rooms and just, you know, 30 seconds or so from each group.

Just, just the biggest takeaway.

Cody, do you wanna start from our group?

Uh, really, I guess it's just what I was saying really is I just want to think where are people gonna be spending money in 12 months, 24 months, 36 months.

And that's where I, I wanna be stood there with my lemonade stand before everybody else gets there.

Pivot.

Like, I see it all the time in, in Facebook groups and stuff like that.

And it's like going from like contract retainer to paper.

It's not necessarily really a pivot to me.

It's an adjustment of the sa in the same industry.

A pivot would be like going from offering a market in agency services to selling oranges on the side of the road.

That would be a pivot.

That's a serious pivot.

That's A serious pivot.

Yeah.

I I think what you were saying as well is thinking ahead 12, 24 months into the future.

'cause we're in uncertain times and going, what's the stuff that people will not stop spending money on?

So Yeah, like the food industry or you were saying kids and that sort of thing.

So Yeah.

No, that's good.

Who's next?

I think you have to be looking at not anymore.

What's recession proof?

What's covid 19 proof as well.

Webinars are, Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

As A delivery vehicle.

Yeah.

Program, online programs, webinars, zoom meetings.

Anything digital is is covid proof.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That can't be locked down.

So I got some covid on a jar here.

I'm gonna keep it and when it finishes, I'm gonna let it go again because it's been so good for my business.

You have, you see what, you'll be shut down in 15 seconds.

See what detected.

You'll be shut down in 15 seconds.

Oh no, that's, that's awesome.

Do we have any other last comments?

I'll book a time with you, Tom.

I've got your message by the way.

I'll set up a time.

Yeah, no, uh, awesome.

Thanks guys.