Overview:

The podcast discusses strategies for finding joint venture partners and making initial contact. It emphasizes doing research beforehand to identify potential partners that would benefit from collaborating. Calling directly is recommended rather than emailing, and the discussion provides tips for how to have a relevant conversation when reaching out. Finding problems companies are facing and positioning your solution is an effective approach.

Once partners are on board, the challenge is getting them to follow through with promotions or events. Offering guarantees and negotiating reasonable ongoing commissions can help with commitment. Overall the podcast offers practical advice for identifying joint venture opportunities and initiating successful partnerships through phone outreach.

Takeaways:

• The podcast discusses marketing strategies for getting joint venture (JV) partners on board, including directly contacting CEOs and top executives when possible instead of going through gatekeepers.
• One speaker has success converting leads from free to high-value sales of $20k+ by providing early value and then making a large upsell.
• Identifying problems companies are facing and positioning your solution directly is an effective way to start conversations with potential JV partners.
• Building trust and reputation is important when finding JV partners to ensure good quality partnerships.
• Using tools like LinkedIn and data scrapers can help find direct contact information for executives instead of going through general email/phone lines.
• Providing quick wins or "taste tests" using a potential partner's existing customer database is a strategy to demonstrate value fast.
• Offering a results guarantee of continuing to work for free if certain goals aren't met within a set time period can reassure clients.
• For JV deals, 15-25% lifetime value is suggested as an effective range, with higher margins working better.
• Following up is important to bridge the gap between people registering for something and actually taking action.
• Understanding a potential partner's personality from their online profiles or in initial conversations can provide clues for an effective approach.

Automatically-Generated Transcription:

Welcome to the, to the September issue of, or September edition of Lead Marketers.

And yeah, one of the, one of the beautiful things that I think makes this unique is often I'll get the presenters to join us based on just my discussions and finding out what's working now and what's really working real time.

And yeah, that's how we've got our two presenters today.

Jace will be up second to walk us through that process.

Hey guys, we're back.

We're back again.

So I might, we might just go straight into some Jason's talk, but I, I just wanted to touch on a couple of things quickly and just do a quick couple of intros because it's the first time on for a couple of people.

Firstly, we've got Rob Fluxx and Rob.

I did some work with over the last probably 12 months and I was fascinated with the detail that he went into and the systems and yeah, procedurally with his marketing was just incredible.

But I actually got introduced to Rob by John Hubbard.

I don't know if you wanna do a quick intro for Rob John.

You can, you obviously know each other quite well.

Yeah.

So Rob's, Rob's a maniac, basically.

He, uh, works around the clock and he is got the largest community of Wouldbe property developers in and property developers in Australia and Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane built on the back of meetups.

And then he's added a whole bunch of stuff onto that over time.

So group coaching and, uh, mentoring Rob, Rob Maniac flu.

Is that, is that the new name?

Yeah.

Thank, thank you gentlemen.

I appreciate that.

Um, apologies for the echo.

I'm actually on site at the moment where we're doing a demolition next door, so you'll probably hear trucks happening, uh, every now and then.

But yeah, we've teaching people the property development process and coaching and mentoring as John said.

And we've got a, I guess a very trust-based funnel where we add a lot of value, I guess very early in the piece.

And then we convert 'em pretty hard at the tail end with a very large upsell.

And it seems to work to the point where our sales cycle is, whilst very hectic at times, we're converting people from a zero based to, to 20 plus K sales when they've only en engaged with us three or four times sometimes.

Wow.

No, that's awesome.

And we might get you to, if you're open to it, Robert, one of the sessions to walk us through how that does.

'cause it's a little bit different to your typical, you ad to webinars to close approach, which is quite common in that space.

So Yeah.

And that's that, that's great.

And John, it's your first time here as as well, John North.

I don't know if you want to do an intro for John Jace?

'cause you've obviously worked with John for a while.

Yes.

Yeah, John's one of my recent clients and we had a, a, a solid win yesterday, I would say a really solid win and then half a win yesterday, which is really good with the introductions.

So John's been for, he's just been popping up for a, a number of years.

I would always see John pop up on Facebook and I would always go, oh, it's that guy.

And yeah.

And then as I did my research into him and organized a call, the level of knowledge and the degree of expertise and acumen when it comes to marketing specifically and getting people like the strategies around getting a bestselling book published, it goes on.

Just the degree of his knowledge just blew my mind.

I was like, I have to work with this guy.

And yeah, thankfully we've taken on a client together, all working together and yeah, I'm learning a lot in the process as well.

And we're putting both of our key skill sets together to work on Yeah.

Building someone else's organization for lack of better words or their profile.

And it's, it's going so far.

Um, but yeah, it's, John's phenomenal.

He's, he's old school as well, so not as old as Murray, but Murray's got, Murray did a quick intro before, which many of you would've heard, but yeah, Murray's ran ma many multimillion dollar agencies and he actually built zip who you might know of if you've ever done the, the automatic hot water boiling water and the shops.

And that from, I don't know, you, you multiplied it many times over Murray.

Yes.

We went into six 60 export markets from Australia.

Oh Yeah.

Yeah.

So if you want the old school knowledge of, you know, someone who's been, been around the traps for a while, Murray's a very good person to speak with.

Yeah, no, that's, that's great.

And that segues me on to the next, or the next talk or the, what, what I was talking with John about recently when we caught up, segues me onto the next talk.

'cause John was talking about this show called, it's called bi.

I, I still can't remember the name.

Billion Dollar, what is it called again?

John?

Well, undercover billionaire.

You can get it on Foxtel undercover billionaire.

Yeah.

So, so one of, one of the takeaways I got from the conversation with John is, is he said every person when they went were a billionaire, and then they went out and they'd lost it and they came back, they went to someone very wealthy, they set up a and they looked at how to leverage that person, was basically the strategy every billionaire used.

And that flows straight into what Jace is gonna be talking to us about, because Jace is gonna go into detail today about how he gets JV partners on board, including the phone skills he uses to cut through and get the impossible meetings with high-end prospects and partners.

And he is also gonna take us through a technique.

I was talking to someone, they're like, oh yeah, Ja, he managed to make a sale to someone.

And he had the, has this unique way of almost proving his ability before he actually, before he actually does it.

Yeah.

So we're gonna do this in a sort of a, a q and A type style.

So, Ja, when, when you're going, and then once I've done the q and a, we'll throw it out to, to everyone, but who, like, how do you decide who to approach a as a JV partner?

Are you talking about from the perspective of me doing joint ventures?

Or are you talking from the perspective of me setting up joint ventures for my clients?

I think either, so if you, if you're gonna get a JV partner, let, let's take it for your clients, let's say.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

How do you decide who you're gonna, yeah.

Who you're gonna target, and how do you narrow that down?

Okay.

First of all, you've gotta really get to know your client and your own products first and foremost.

And then identifying the exact profile of which you are looking to target.

So if you are looking at, for example, in the case of Sky, they deal with residential builders and there's a certain profitability in that residential builders, certain demographic that's going on.

Then you would wanna identify who already has that marketplace, where do they go before they see us, where do they go during the time that they see us, and where do they go after?

And you'll answer those three questions, and then typically you're gonna be able to find the exact origin of where they are.

This is getting ultra precise, right?

Then from there, depending on the marketplace, for example, if I am targeting corporate and I'm dealing with a SaaS company, then a SaaS company would be working with typically C T O, right?

So the position, role inside that organization, say if the SaaS is a culture and capability platform, it's a HR platform like Bamboo hr, then they're going to be dealing with head of culture, transformation resource, human capital, these, and that's if you're going into like the likes of Deloitte, K P M G, Mercer, et cetera.

So it depends on one, the client, but two, the exact target that is making the key decision in order to get you either in the door or actually take you up on whatever you are offering.

Does that answer your question?

So in the case of the, the residential builders, Russ and Sky, they own an, an association that then trains and coaches and facilitates the journeys and educates, uh, builders, professional builders.

Who else in the marketplace has professional builders?

Then there's SaaS companies that have access to the exact marketplace.

Then, then you put them together and it's just about offering a opportunity there, typically.

Yeah, no, that, that, that's good.

So let's say you want to get in the, in the front door mm-hmm.

And get a meeting with either a high-end client or with a partner, because they're really the same thing, right?

Right.

You're trying to cut through, you're trying to cut through to someone with a level of influence, and I know you're very good at this.

How do you do it?

Like how do you get past, how do you get past the gatekeeper to start with?

Sure.

So the first, I'll go with the, the last one first, uh, the gatekeeper, typically, if I am going to have a conversation with the gatekeeper, it means that my data extraction skills using data scrapers like Lucia, LinkedIn or whatever, hasn't worked, which means that my next stage is, okay, I'm gonna go through the front door instead of the side door and the back door.

Typically what I'll do is I'll identify number one first and foremost, who the key decision maker is in the organization.

So if it is, say, a, a, a medium sized big company, I'm going straight for the c e o, the managing director, director, executive chairman, co-founder, whatever their position is.

Then from the top, you trickle your way down.

But if I can't get anyone's data within there that I can have a direct call to through a mobile phone, then what I'll do is I will go through the front door, which means I'll have a conversation with the gatekeeper, gatekeeper, where I treat them as if they're the c e O.

But I typically lead with value every single time.

And the value is appealing, and I don't make it invasive, meaning it's gonna sound like I'm pitching something.

Also, if you're going through that direction, and you should always do this anyway, you should already know the industry well enough in order to deliver some key points that are gonna identify a problem that you can solve inside their organization.

So you want to, your powder needs to be dry if you're having these conversations.

So typically if you can hit those hot buttons, you will get an opportunity to go through to the gatekeeper to next stage.

But first and foremost, I would always bypass the gatekeeper and go straight to the top anyway.

And then you can always be led down if need be.

And that typically happens with big organizations.

Spoke to the c e O of Deloitte, I got put down to the chief marketing officer for one of my clients, and then we're having a meeting this afternoon about it, and I'm with the cmo, but they're the decision makers.

So this, it really just depends on who you're dealing with and the size, but, uh, mediums, mid-sized really get onto the top end very easily.

How, how did you get a meeting with the c e O of Deloitte?

Can you take us through the process that you use?

Yeah, yep.

So I've got a client that runs a culture and capability platform called Reach Ecosystem.

Uh, with him, what I did was, so where, going into there now, there's many different facets of Deloitte.

I got sick of getting bounced around with all these people and I thought, stuff it, I'm going straight to the C E O.

So he wanted, he directly told me he wants in with them.

So I was like, okay, I just get on to LinkedIn.

I use Lucia, which is a Google Chrome extension.

Um, you pay per credit.

Then their direct email comes up and then their mobile phone comes up, you click the button, you lose one credit, pick up the phone and have a conversation and that's it.

He an, did he answer his phone?

Yeah, he did.

So, so he answered his phone.

What did you say when he answered the phone?

Like how did the conversation flow?

Yeah, okay.

So with this particular client, I'm coming from a different angle because it's almost like a reseller opportunity, which is a little bit different.

So I'm using key terms such as Cape Co.

It's very nuanced with this, with this conversation.

So most of the people, 'cause everyone's marketers in here, HR conversation is a complete different dialogue.

But culture and capability and integration and measurement between um, departments is a big problem during these times with covid.

So I'm hitting that hot button, they're going, look, we're we, we understand, and it's based on our research too.

So I'm going in once again with Powder Dry going, you guys are struggling based on the fact that your departments are all over the place and you need a full measurability culture and capability platform.

Stop using disc, stop using all these other things.

Focus in.

So I'm identifying the problem, which is measurability within the organization and human capability and then going, have a look at this and let's tee up a time.

Can you direct me if it's not you to the right individual?

Mm-hmm.

It's very great.

It's very straight to the point.

CEOs don't have time.

Just get direct with them and they'll lead you to the right place.

Sometimes I'll say email, that's fine.

And I've had a lot of success with the right emails coming back as well.

So just punch out an email there.

Look, if, and this is another thing, there's a strategy called the combo effect.

So if you can't get someone by the phone, phone's always, the first first one you want to do is always pick up the phone and have a direct conversation.

It's the number one skill.

Not many people do it because they like hanging behind a keyboard and typing things and they feel safe behind an email.

That s**t doesn't, it just, you just wanna get straight to the individual.

So pick up the phone if that doesn't work, WhatsApp text message straight away voicemail.

Then if you, worst case scenario, lump email, snail mail, and then email as well.

So you hit them from those, all those angles, then it's just bang, one of them will have success.

And if you don't, then that's fine.

Next, go to another, uh, point or angle or not to enter, which may be the front door, which is always the most exhausting.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so what you, what I hear saying is the relevance is really what's key is when you call up that you've done your preparation before you make that phone call.

So that what you say isn't, you don't sound like an Indian call center sort of thing, just calling up and you know, talking random sort of stuff.

Yeah, it's not a Nigerian call center.

It's, it's very direct.

It's very to the point.

And it's backed with potentially data if you really want to go to the extent.

But it's really identifying a problem and then delivering a solution to that problem.

When it comes to setting up partnerships, though, on a general basis with my clients, the approach that I have, um, and what I say to, it's very non-invasive.

So it's, Hey, I've got a high profile client who's looking to do a strategic partnership with you before I make the introduction.

Are you open to strategic alliances?

That's a very non-invasive question.

Most people are, they don't know what it is.

Great, I'll educate them, then I'll get them interested.

That is, that's a non-invasive way.

That's another way that's for a different demographic and target.

That's across, across the board.

That's the strategy I use.

Anyone in this group can use that strategy.

In fact, why not hire you can get your, your next door neighbor or you your wife, position them on LinkedIn and get them to start doing it, and they could be a third party advocate.

And that's, it's a very non-invasive way of, of doing it.

And it's, it's, and, and it's always win.

You are always thinking, okay, how do I win?

How does the individual I'm working with win?

But also, how does the ultimate buyer at the end of the day going to win?

'cause the number one thing, as we all know, every single person that's watching here is it's not their first rodeo.

Reputation is the number one thing.

And we've always got a factor that in conversation as well.

Hence why all my clients that I work with are always high profile.

They've got the resources, they've got a great reputation and it's very easy for me to endorse them, introduce them, and facilitate a conversation.

'cause I know that they're not gonna be an idiot.

So that's, that's another thing as well.

You wanna make sure that you are working with good people, high quality people.

And that's in the sense of choosing your partners and your clients.

It's obvious.

It's a no brainer, that one.

Yeah.

So with Lucia, how does Lucia work?

So Lucia, what are they, what do they charge?

Can you get phone numbers from most people and email addresses from most people or?

Yeah, it's pretty good actually.

Lucia's, by far the best one I've come across.

There's many out there.

It's done at Bradstreet's, another one, but I wouldn't use that because it's just, it's more for, that's more for cold calling industrial.

But Lucia works in the, I pay $300 a month I think.

And with that maybe $200 a month, I get 300 credits.

I dunno, I want one of the premium ones.

And from that I get, yeah, 300 credits and then I just stock up.

And then typically I use those credits amongst all my clients throughout the month.

Uh, but it works in a sense that it's a data, uh, Chrome extension.

So it attaches and then what it'll do is a pick up the data of every profile and the D some don't have them, some do.

Um, and they'll give you an email and contact number, whether it be a, um, landline, which would be the office or mobile.

Yeah, yeah.

And most people, like you can find that for what, 80% of people?

90%.

50%.

Like where you can get their numbers.

Yeah.

That's pretty good.

I'm saying.

Yeah, 80, 90%.

I've got a pretty, yeah, it's pretty good actually.

I've heard of other people, I've looked at reviews online about it and some people struggle.

But yeah, it's, it doesn't seem like it's problem.

I don't know.

Sky's asking, is that a breach of privacy law?

I actually don't know.

I think it's Illegal.

Is it?

I, because it's illegal to sell someone's personal information and that's what they're doing.

Wow, okay.

Let's not talk about that then.

It's selling the personal information though.

I'm selling the software that gets access to the personal information.

There'll be a fine line.

It's a gray line there.

It'll be a gray area.

Yeah, I'm happy with gray.

Okay, so Steven said not illegal.

Uh, Steven, I suppose, 'cause you're not email blasting.

Oh Yeah.

Anoop said official name is legal.

Yeah, it's, it's legal because it's just, they're scraping data which is available elsewhere.

So they're just collecting it.

So it's not a unlisted private number.

It must be just that information is on some other profile or some other place.

But why would the C E O put a mobile number on a public profile?

Because it's stupid.

It's interesting.

They don't always have it on their public profile, but somehow it's connected in, it's really cra I, I'm surprised too.

I am really surprised and I'm really happy with it.

I think a lot of the time they find them from blog articles, PR releases.

There's so many like P D F documents on the web as well where they're mobile numbers listed.

Even like a fundraising event.

Get them in the most bizarre places.

Yeah.

Scrape them all.

Yeah.

Interesting, interesting.

So, Jace, one of the things I know you do in your sales process is you will give people almost, or give potential clients a taste test of what you can do by, by almost setting up a JV with the first mm-hmm.

What's your process and your reasoning behind that?

Yeah, that's a really good question.

Um, I call it the R O A R I A or results in advance or dangling the carrot was a good analogy for it.

And what you do is you just say, look, if I could get you this, would you then take me up on an opportunity to work with me where the value is in it.

Typically with joint ventures or strategic alliances, all it takes is one key partnership and then first and foremost, my services are covered.

But number two, there's a lot of scalability in it with the right resources on the backend.

And yeah, it's, that's, it's a good strategy and any marketer, if you've got the capability.

So what I do is very low expense.

If you can get someone a result in advance, then they're going to typically purchase from you and it works and you wanna back it up.

But JVs by far have the greatest scalability because all you need is one.

One, good one.

And then, yeah.

And that's typically what happens with my clients.

So one of the biggest issues I have, and I'm sure there's many people that could probably, you know, thrash me right now.

But one of the biggest problems I have is I get my clients' results and then they don't need my services anymore 'cause they're jampacked with what's coming through.

So I'm repositioning now and just going into the tech space only.

Um, so the scalability there, but, so that's the result in advance from a different strategy.

You can also dig for carrots as well.

So if they've got an existing database, getting them some quick wins with their already existing database is a great strategy in order to make them money fast.

And that then can then in turn get them working with you as well.

I don't use that one as much, but those with the right, um, software and backend systems have the capability of, yeah, getting quick wins with them, getting them very fast wins by tapping into what they've already got.

There's a story about acres of diamonds.

A lot of people are sitting under millions and millions of dollars and they don't even know it.

And it's within their own data.

There's that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You mentioned old school before.

I do the old school element of developing relationships and not being as social media orientated and tech orientated, but at the same time it's bridging, it's bridging the new world with the old world, so to speak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, I think, and I think most marketers can do that in one way or another.

I know I've done it with, for example, you find someone with a large database and you send a a nine word email out.

Yeah.

Are you still thinking about and to, to us it's nothing fancy, but to someone who's never come across it, you look like a genius and it takes about five minutes to do and then that sort of sets it up for the next sale.

So I think it's a really good question.

We can all ask is how can we sliver our services to give people a taste test, which doesn't cost a lot or an RN, but offers massive value on their end.

So One thing I also do offer on the back end of what I do is a results guarantee.

So if I don't within three months render three partnerships, that will end up getting a return on investment.

'cause JVs can take, like I've had JVs kick off within a month and they've made a lot of money, then there's ones that take, they can take up to a year.

So the results in advance strategy that I put in place is that after the third month, and this is, is kind of puts my clients at ease, is the fact that I'll say, look, I'll work for free after the third month continuously until the results come in.

And I know inevitably it does happen because I'm not dependent on algorithms or anything like that.

Comes down to cure Effort Pro and, and just relentless work And then it happens.

It always happens.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, that's good.

Now, now in terms of, the other question I've got is from a joint venture perspective, you can obviously get people on board and they say, yep, old JV with you, no problem.

Sounds good.

But we all know it's getting someone to say they'll come to the event yes.

And register to a free event and actually get 'em getting 'em to show up, which is like around about 35% who register, actually show up.

How do you bridge that gap with joint ventures and actually get them to do it, you know, send the email, do the promotion, recommend your partner, all of that sort of thing.

Yeah, that comes down to high qualification on the front end.

First of all, you wanna make sure that they're serious, they're motivated, they've got a mindset and they do see it.

So a lot of the work's done on the front end and qualifying, if they're not the type of person that you would qualify, well then, um, sometimes it's okay to make an introduction 'cause they may come to the party at at a later stage.

Uh, but it is also a juggling effect.

You're not always gonna be able to 100% determine the same way that Sky says sometimes when it comes to teams, you're not gonna know and there's things to juggle.

So what you want to do is you wanna manage the relationship and keep the relationship ongoing, but at the same time have your A's have your B'S have your Cs spend more time with your A's and focus on them.

Mm-hmm.

Because the a's do come in, the ones that do see it and they're the ones that are going to make the most of the money.

And it comes back down to that.

I think it's the Pareto principle 80 20 rule always goes back to that.

Um, so to make that happen, one, it's typically upfront, but two, executing on the deal and setting outcomes and dates from that point.

And that comes down to management, which I don't do a lot of.

I've only got a select few clients that I do management with.

And that goes from negotiating deals back and forth, working with my clients to ensure that the best opportunity is going to come from it from a win perspective.

And that's another element of it.

If you are doing a deal and you are giving commission, typically if you're doing, depending on the margins, high margin deals work better because it's financially more lucrative.

However, if you plan to say, just as a generic or general sense, if you are paying anything below 15%, then the relationship will typically diminish.

If you're paying over 25%, then the relationship eventually diminishes from the other end.

So typically what we look at is a range of 15 to 25% as that sweet spot for a good deal to go long term.

Why?

'cause one party doesn't feel like they're getting jammed after 12 months and then, and then initially after around six to 12 months, if it's too low, the other party doesn't feel like they're getting jammed.

And it just, it's, it is around ballpark that what I've found works and I've been trial and error over the years to work that one out.

Is that 15 to 25% for the upfront deal or is that like an ongoing sort of lifetime value type thing?

It's More of a lifetime value thing.

Yeah, because sometimes you can pay up front, there's another way of doing it.

You can pay up front in bulk as well.

And it could be just a once off payment or, but ongoing typically.

So that's a good answer that you just asked that.

Yeah, if it's ongoing then 15 to 25% is T, 25% would be max.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's good.

That's good.

And what I hear you saying is it's almost getting a subscriber on your list, you've gotta have a process to take them from being a subscriber to actually buying your product.

Yeah.

And very similar with JVs.

You get the meeting but you've gotta have a process to take them to actually referring you.

There's a lot that goes into it.

Yeah.

And I, I completely get why most businesses don't do it, but I also believe that they should.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, that's, Yeah, you gotta have a mind for it and it's not fun a lot of the time because you're dealing with human elements as well.

But I love it.

It's strange 'cause I hate social media opposite, right?

Yeah.

So is there any questions for, does anyone have any questions for Jace?

Quick one, Jace on that, Lucia, can you put in a generic email address and find their details that way?

What do you mean, sorry, with Lucia?

Well we, well we, yeah, we get a lot of people opting in and they tend to use generic email addresses when they opt in.

So we can't always trace them on LinkedIn or, or anywhere.

But with that software, I understand you can like search on someone's name and company presumably could you put a generic email address in there and search 'em as well?

But yeah, I actually haven't done this before, but with LinkedIn, can you actually put a generic email into the search bar and then it comes up with the profile?

We have LinkedIn, we have it linked to HubSpot.

So we, any contact we looked at in HubSpot either have a match in LinkedIn or, or a few suggested ones.

So I think it probably is doing it from the email in the background, but yeah.

Yeah, if they don't have that email on LinkedIn, I wondered if this would be another avenue to check.

Yeah, it would be it, it definitely would be.

I just go direct to profile, which is, and then I get the data and the data's usually on point.

It even gives me their personal email, which is really good.

But to answer your question, yeah, that would be another way.

I don't even have a C R M, so as everyone else, Russ.

Yeah, I just wanted to say that like you are getting it from HubSpot because you've got that record in HubSpot.

If that record is not, does not exist in HubSpot with their phone number, then you won't get it from there.

So you still need to use, uh, Lucia, Uh, I realize that, but what we look to do is verify everyone that comes into our database.

So we get a lot of opt-ins using generic email addresses and we wanna know if they're a builder, what type of building company they got.

So we're trying to find who owns that email address.

So that's what we're looking for.

Just other ways we can pull the details on these generic email addresses.

We should test that.

Yeah.

So yeah, we'll do that.

Yeah, it's good.

It's a good idea.

Any other questions?

Probably got time for one more.

Yeah.

I wanted to ask you, Jess, let's say you've got to a key decision maker and they, they're open, approachable, and willing to take the next step.

Like how broad or how specific do you need to be to get the next step from them?

Good question.

I have to unpack this one for a moment.

Depends on the individual you're speaking to.

If we go to the old school, just profiling system, you're dealing with a C personality, you're gonna have to go more specific.

If you're going with the D, you need to be more direct.

If you're going with an I, you're gonna have a conversation with them and you could be as fluffy as fairy cakes if you want and mm-hmm.

That'll get 'em excited and, and get it in.

It really comes down to the type of individual that you're speaking to.

The capability of you being able to know the type of individual you speak to is your experience on the phones, being able to work out the behavioral pattern that's going on, like what type of individual might dealing with, if you do look them up on LinkedIn, then you can, usually, people's facial features will give away their personality a little bit as well.

And their LinkedIn profile dialogue can give away the type of personality, but you usually just pick it up by the time you hear their tonality over the phone.

The one type of individual you're dealing with.

Accountants typically a lot more reserved, a lot more skeptical than you go to marketers.

A lot more open, more aggressive and assertive around doing things like this.

So it comes down to the personalities.

However, if you do get an accountant, they typically follow through and they're very loyal.

There's different industries, different occupations always attract different personalities, similar trends, and, and you'll get, and as time progresses, yeah, the, you can either play high level or you can go broad or you can go specific.

It's either one comes down to the individual.

If they ask a lot of questions, then just answer them.

It's not a, I don't use any leading questions or N L P or a hypno type strategies.

I just have a good conversation with someone and if they're an ARS a*****e, they're an ARS a*****e and, okay.

Thank you.

That's awesome.

Thank, thanks.

Ja, that was a, yeah, really, there's some awesome distinctions from that.

Yeah.

From that presentation.